When I was in fourth grade, our Hebrew teacher used to take two kids and bang their heads together -- not too lightly either. But it was meant to be an affectionate "knup" on the head...almost like a "noogie". He was an Old World teacher even then. Today no teacher would dare do what he did.
It's hard to believe that when you were age nine, the teachers/administrators were doing much worse to the students.
If you had any type of ego up until then, what an ego breaker that long-lasting experience was! Sorry you had to be on the receiving end of such a "forceful" lesson. Definitely want to hear all about the revenge!

Robert,
At first when I started reading this post I thought, "Oh my gosh- he named this teacher's name...what if he's still alive...isn't this Loshon Harah...blah blah blah". But then I read on and read about the cruelty he inflicted on you. It is an absolute Chillul Hashem for what he did to you. I don't understand why he did what he did to you - what was his point? He is the dummy. Ugh. I hope your revenge was sweet.

I also had a teacher at my Jewish day school who was cruel to me but not at all to extent of what JOel Braverman did. She yelled at me in the front of the class and told me I was basically stupid for flunking a re-test. I can still remember it. She almost jumped up & down from her excitement of being angry at me. I hope she is not teaching anymore.

Braverman is dead. Even if he were alive I would have no qualms about naming him for what he did. He was a cruel and unfeeling man who caused me and many other students great unhappiness and shame. There is no forgiveness for what he did. None.

Robert J. Avrech

"In those days"?!?! You're not that much older than me, and I can't imagine a teacher or principal ever doing something like that. Maybe Yeshivas really are out of step with the modern world, in bad ways as well as good. My Great Uncle Sam was blinded by a Hebrew teacher who hit him on the head with a Hebrew book, but this was almost 100 years ago.

Cathy:
Back in the 50's and 60's there were quite a few violent teachers in the Yeshiva of Flatbush. Mrs. Katz, a nasty piece of work, used to make us lay our hands palm up and she would take her wooden ruler and WHACK us with it. Mr. Zilber would take an eraser and throw it at us, usually aiming for our heads. Mr. Weinstein would grab us by the neck and squeeze until it felt like our neck was breaking. We thought that this was normal behavior. It was not until I was much older--actually not till I got to college and had the chance to speak to kids who went to public schools--that I learned how backward my Yeshiva was. I make no excuses for these people. None of them were traumatized Holocaust survivors. They were just a bunch of nasty creeps who hated children. How Yeshiva Flatbush ever got its stellar repution for excellence is something of a mystery. My years were positively Dickensian. I still have nightmares that I'm back on East 10th street.

I do understand why you didn't tell your parents.
When things like that happened in school we felt that we were at fault. In second grade, a certain
Miss Merrow sat me in the lowest drawer (I was always small)of her desk for almost the entire
day.......I believe the offense was chatting while
we were supposed to be quiet. I feared telling my
mother as I assumed she would "pooh-pooh" it and and side with the teacher. That night, however,your mother was instructed to
help me with a bath and discovered that I had
"Ring around the Tushie" and reported it to your
Nanny. Your Grandmother (of blessed memory) went
to school with me the following morning and saw
the Principal and whoever else would listen to
her and caused a sensation at the school! UNJUST
PUNISHMENT!!! I was transferred to another class
but I have been traumatized my entire life over
the incident!!!!!!

Dear Tante:

You never told me about this. I'm gad you finally did. Nanny was a powerhouse of a woman. I should have gone to her and she would have protected me!

Love

Robert

The power teachers have is truly amazing. Even when they do not physically touch their students, they can scar them through their words. After I transferred from a Yeshiva to public school at the beginning of second grade, my teacher (who happened to be an anti-Semite) used to humiliate me in front of the class. This put me in the position of "class victim" - fair game for the other children, who then thought nothing of tormenting me all the way through the end of elementary school.

Cruelty is perhaps the only thing that I find it impossible to forgive.

Sara

Robert:

My father, OBM, was tortured by a sadistic rebbe in cheder in the old country (Romania). His mother thought rebbes could do no wrong so did not intercede. He was beaten mercilessly. (Adding to the problem was that he was a lefty; any time he tried to write with his left hand he got whacked with a ruler. He forced himself to write with his right hand).

My dad, who was the gentlest soul you could imagine, told us that when he heard that this rebbe died in the Holocaust he did not feel sad at all.

Hashem should protect our children and grandchildren from people like this.

How horrible.
My Dad has related similar stories from his Yeshiva days - though I haven't heard about physical abuse in the Yeshivas today.
In my own experiences in the 1980s at an elite Brooklyn girl's Yeshiva, (with the Most Excellent Reputation), I witnessed reputations damaged for minor infractions, and lives destroyed- by mind games from power hungry faculty and administrators who knew nothing about child psychology - nor cared. Every teen going through natural changes, was made to feel like they were evil. We even had a whole "spy" system going on.
Earlier you had mentioned a Bais Yaakov girl's blog, where she lists why she wouldn't talk to boys, and Karen quipped, it was odd the girl felt that way only about "talking." Karen, there are faculty with very Catholic ideas, that insist their way is the "frum" way, and any other approach is evil.
As a teen I'd always hoped, that at least Flatbush was a more progressive environment.
While most of my peers endured all kinds of shtick in school, as a stronger parent body, we won't accept that for the next generation. New schools have oppened up, with a desire to have the children HAPPY. Thank God.
I see positive changes.
But we still need a central auditing system, to keep psychotic, abusive "Heiligah" nut jobs, away from our kids.

There is a special place in hell for adults who are cruel to children. I agree with Sara that cruelty to children is something I also would find iimpossible to forgive–not that any of our teachers or principals ever asked for forgiveness.

I am sure that things are different in the orthodox yeshivas now. Or at least they appear to be better. I know if any teacher ever touched one of my kid, well, that teacher would be picking up their teeth with broken fingers. As for Yael's idea of a central auditing system; well, I am no fan of big governmnet or any big bureacracy. I believe that each school should be monitored by concerned parents on a community by communityy basis. That seems to me to be an infinitely more effective method for protecting our children.

Blame the yeshivas, why don't you? My mom was in public school during the '50s and '60s, and she has horror stories to tell. Yes, horror stories far worse than bumping two kids heads together. One kid in my mom's class got a concussion when his teacher threw him across the room and he smashed his skull against the blackboard.

I'm not saying this to excuse what happened--those stories are horrible and cruel. I just don't know necessarily that the cruelty shown there should be so strongly portrayed as "The Old Yeshiva System" as much as "The Old Ways of Schooling."

Stx:

i can't talk about the public schools. I never attended one. But I'm not surprised to hear that there was violence there too. It was the way things were in those days. And I'm not blaming the yeshivas. I'm putting the blame squarely where it belongs: on the shoulders of some very nasty men and women.

By the way. I don't think of myself as a victim. It happened. It's over. It made me stronger, ready to face whatever comes my way.

I went to Y of Flatbush H.S., in the mid-80's. There were still people there who remembered and revered Braverman, and they were a pretty sick bunch of teachers and principals. I don't want to think about or analyze that time or those people, and so I was not going to post, but after the comment that it is all a history problem, i felt i had to say just one thing. It is hard to move on to more sane philosophies of raising children if one retains faculty from that time, and almost as important, reverence for the sickos, and the conviction that they were great, and worthy of emulation.
p.s. this is not a comment on the present. I don't know what Flatbush is like now, nor can I bring myself to care. I am sure it is possible that it is better.

As a public school teacher who also taught secular studies evenings at a Yeshiva ten years ago, I can safely say some things have changed, mostly physical abuse, though in some districts, corporal punishment is not illegal.

One moment at the Yeshiva, however, still sticks in my mind. When teaching the code Napolean's attempt to neutralize Jews through assimilation into European society,one student professed that hashem's answer to our people was the Holocaust. Almost all of the boys nodded their heads in agreement. Though I was instructed by the principal to avoid all controversy (skipping the first three chapters of the world history text as its timeline clashed with biblical chronology, no debates or projects in class, no writing essays in history class, after all, it's not an English class), a lively debate ensued that certainly would have made the head Reb's face turn red with anger.

This certainly was not the first time in my years at the yeshiva where I found that my students were taught that unlike their Jewish studies, where they were encouraged to debate and utilize a variety of viewpoints, secular studies were black and white, and definitely played second fiddle in all respects.

Robert, You just triggered a bad memory.

I attended elementary school at Toras Emes from 1978-1986. Most rebbis were not violent, but several were.

When I was in sixth grade, in 1984, we had a chasidic rebbe, probably in his mid-30's, for the 12-1 chumash session. One Friday toward the end of the school year, he demanded that a number of kids stay after school. I ignored him, and walked out the door, when, presumably infuriated by the affront to his honor, he grabbed me, slammed my head and body against the wall and punched me repeatedly. This went on for quite a while. When he was done, he warned me not to tell my parents, or he would have me thrown out of the yeshiva.

I did not tell my parents, however, on Saturday night, my mother noticed that my back was badly bruised. I reluctantly told her what happened.

The next morning, my parents went to the yeshiva principal, a man who was principal of the yeshiva for more than 40 years, to demand that the rebbi be fired. It is worth noting that my family had a fairly good relationship with the principal, and that my father was fairly well known in the community.

The principal finished his meeting with my parents, and asked me and the rebbi to come to his office. My parents quietly told me not to worry, to tell the principal exactly what happened and not be scared of the rebbi. I told the truth. The principal asked the rebbi to respond. The rebbi's response was that I was a liar, and had banged my own head against the wall when he demanded that I stayed late, and that he did not lay a hand on me except to restrain me from hurting myself further.

The principal's response was to berate me for making false accusations against a rebbi, and he actually forced me to apologize to the rebbi. The rebbi was not fired and I went back to his classroom.

On the last day of school, the rebbi asked me in front of the entire class to forgive him. I responded sarcastically that there was no reason for me to forgive him, since I had thrown myself against the wall, and he never touched me. He then asked me privately for forgiveness, and I ignored him.

On erev Yom Kippur, I was walking home from mincha in Boro Park when I met the rebbi. He stopped me, told me that he was no longer teaching at the yeshiva (I assume the principal conveniently decided to terminate him at the end of the school year, and berated me only for some stupid purpose of protecting the authority of the rebbis) and that he had been thinking about what he did all summer, that he was very wrong,
and since it is erev Yom Kippur, G-d clearly decided to have me meet him for a reason, and he hoped I would grant him forgiveness. I muttered okay, I forgive you, and walked away. Given that I don't recall ever seeing him again (and I lived in Boro Park for 13 more years), perhaps there really was a divine reason for that chance meeting.

Ultimately, I think the principal's actions are as reprehensible as the rebbi's. The rebbi did a terrible thing, and then refused to accept responsiblity instead blaming his victim, but at least he seemed to have understood the wrongfulness of his conduct. The principal, a school educator, berated a kid who had been badly beaten by his own rebbi two days earlier for no reason other than some archaic notion of supporting authority figures.

Your heart wrenching post brought back memories of my school days. Nothing as horrible as this, but bad enough.

This is why my children are homeschooled.

This post seems to have hit a nerve. I just want everybody to understand that I do not see myself as a victim. I hate the culture of victimhood that is endemic in our society now. I wrote about Braverman because there is a high school named after him, and because a cult of personality surrounds him that is soviet style in its reliance on lies and selective memory. I want to set the historical record straight. In the process, I seem to have awakened other harsh memories.

Your post has definitely struck a nerve, Robert. A rabbi in my daughter's high school didn't abuse her physcially, but he humiliated and traumatized her by screaming at her, red-faced, in front of her peers and teachers ("You're a liar and a manipulator! Your children will be liars and manipulators!")when he caught her wearing a non-uniform sweater that she had put on to buffer the cold as she walked outside to get from an annex to the school's main building.

The scars remain. Recently I fictionalized this man and the event in a mystery novel. Writing the scene gave me some satisfaction, a fleeting sense of empowerment, but not enough.

wow.

I went to a cheder where hitting was the norm. My second grade rebbe would make you hold your hand still on the desk with the palm down and would whack it with one of those pointer sticks with the yellow tips. He loved this stick. In fact, when it would break after frequent hitting, he would make a cast out of popcicle sticks and tape to hold it together again. By the end of the year, this stick was entirely covered in sticks.

Then there's the 6th grade rebbe who was notoriously sadistic and was eventually arrested at one point years later for giving a boy a concussion.

On the other hand, I was rarely hit. While I wouldn't say my father never hit us, if he heard of ANYONE touching one of his kids, he'd go ballistic. And he's a large & loud fellow and can be quite scary.

Once in 4th grade, after he found out that the principle had me bend over a chair so that he could strap me, he came down to the school and almost ripped the principle's head off his shoulders. I could hear him yelling 4 stories up. It felt great. The school soon learned that the **** boys are not to be touched unless they wanted to get hurt themselves.

Your story made me feel so ill it was difficult to read all the way through. To the degree that it is possible to feel another's pain, I did. There really were/are some evil creeps out there. I think it is great that you named the perpetrator. Why should his reputation be protected? This in no way compares to what you went through, but I had a scarring experience in 4th grade in public school. I had been put in the accelorated class but was having trouble keeping up. One day we came back from lunch and my desk was missing from the classroom. There was just an open space where it had been. All the kids stood around asking, "Leslie, where's your desk?" Well, it had been moved to another classroom where presumably it would be easier for me. No preparation, no warning. No thought for a little girl's psyche. This was in 1964 and I still have trouble telling the story without tears welling up. If Miss Abrams from the Ashford Ave. elementary school in Ardsley, NY is still alive, I would certainly like to tell her how her cruelty and lack of compassion affected me for years to come. Of course this experience does not compare to the horrific physical abuse you endured.

Terrible, just terrible. In high school a substitute teacher threatened to hit me for talking out in class. I promised to send him to the hospital and somehow things never got any uglier than that.

But these stories just infuriate me. Terrible.

Wow. Flatbush. My cousins went there. How awful. When I first read your revenge post (the later one), I guess I assumed you went to a "black hat" type school, but this really hits close to home. How very, very sad and awful.

I went to Yeshivah of flatbush and graduated in the late 90's. The teachers no longer hit the students. They couldn't get away with it the students are so rich and spoiled...mostly sephardic. It was the other kids I feared when I went to school, not the teachers. The teachers are so weak now, one boy in my grade pinched a teacher's rear and the teacher was the one who left the school, not that popular boy.

I never knew that about Mr. Braverman. That's sick and his name should be taken off the school.

But YofF is okay now. If your sephardic. If your ashkenaz, go somewhere else because the students are stupid and mean.

Chanah:

I'm glad to hear that the teachers at Yeshiva of Flatbush are no longer violent savages. Naturally, it is not acceptable that the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that now teachers fear the students. As the Rambam says in Hilchot Dayot: it is best to walk a middle path in life.

I have heard rumblings about the social disparity between the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim at Flatbush Yeshiva. But this should not be a surprise for when a school relies on one specific group for its funding, you can be sure that that group will have no qualms about wielding its influence in any form that will strengthen its hand.

I would be interested in hearing from more Flatbush Yeshiva graduates, particularly regarding Joel Braverman, and what's going on in the school now.

I went to Flatbush from the late 70'd thru the mid 80's and I can tell you, tweaking kids with a pinch or an ear grab was very much the norm then. Maybe some of you former schoolmates of mine recall a certain Ms. Ribalow? To this day I consider it a feat of gravity that my earlobes don't touch the ground. There were also a slew of nasty mouthed teachers too - they'd say the harshest and/or most inappropriate things (shout out to Ms. Kornblum). And Rabbi Besser of course, who really only bothered to each the boys. Anyway, until the Syrian influx of the mid to late 90's, that was a very different school. I'm thinking that sort of behavior doesn't fly there any longer.

Also, my mom went there during the Braverman era (50's & 60's) and stories of ear pulling are legendary & rampant amongst her and her old school friends.

Now what about those rumors of Lonny Benamy and the female students (I always wondered what truth there was to that)

Robert: I read everything you wrote about Flatbush and the names you named. I can understand your feeling, but the problem is that you are in a minority.
I entered Flatbush as a Kindergarten student in 1960 and had to deal with Mr. Braverman. He was an abusive autocrat to say the least that lived, breathed and died for the school. He died my freshman year in the High School. I do not doubt your story, because in that era [1950-60's] teachers were given too much latitude re: discipline, or what they perceived as discipline.
I remember him wanting to throw me out of the school when I was in kindergarten because I would not dance with girls [did not take orders well], which was interesting because 11 years later in the high school, Rabbi Eliach wanted to throw me out just for the opporsite.
re: Mrs. Katz- who was a GREAT teacher, I had her in 7th and 8th grade, and she was an old school pain in the ass, and Mr. Weinstein, a fabulous math teacher, and Mr. Silber, who was a decent english teacher, they were old school, who would have acted the way that they did in either a private or public school setting because that was the way things were at that time.
I have very fond memories of my 13 years at Flatbush [k thru 12th] and its education has served me well. Is it perfect??? not really. But 10000 graduates had essentially given the school a stellar reputation. Does it deserve nothing but KUDOS?? absolutely not. Did you have a bad experience there?? Obviously yes. So did my oldest son. And my middle son who just graduated the school loved it.
It is not for everyone, the same way that there are dozens of brands of automobiles out there, each one with a niche consumer.
Re: Abusing children: of course it is never appropriate, but to equate teacher/student relatiionships of 1960 to those acceptable today is a poor analogy. My relationship with patients [the Flatbush education helped make me a so called professional] is not the same as my own medical professionals relationship with me in the 1960's.
Is that good?? Is that bad??? I am not smart enough to know.
I can name you EVIL teachers from Flatbush [the names you mentioned dont make my list} and people who amused me no end[ I remember Rabbi Elnadav, a great teacher getting so angry at a kid that he threw, and I MEAN THREW his desk at him], is that wrong?? of course. But in the context of the times, it was THEN acceptable.
re: the poster who complained about the "sephardization" of the school. That is why my youngest is not going to the High School. It is a problem, but not because of the education, or the Sephardic Culture, but because of the WEALTH and privilege and entitlement that the culture has bestowed on those children.

Jeff:

Whew. Lots to react to. Thanks for taking the time to write. Of course you are correct when you say that what went on in those days cannot be compared to our more enlightened times. Children are definitely treated with more compassion today. That's a good thing.

As for the excellence or non excellence of Flatbush. Look, the good kids do well no matter what school they go to. It's the marginal kids that get hurt. The kids with problems, the kids with less than 4.0 averages, these are the kids who fall between the cracks in an environment like Flatbush.

I want to say it again. I am not a victim. I am not a survivor. I'm just a normal guy whose character was formed and strengthened by a few lousy experiences. Braverman built an important Jewish institution. No question. But I'm sure that he's still burning in hell for all the children he damaged.

Jeff, it's interesting that you say Robert is in the minority...I'm guessing that Robert's story, and all of these responses, are just the tip of the iceberg.

Randi is correct. Judging by the amount of private mail that has been pouring in, Joel Braverman and the teachers at Flatbush Yeshiva left their marks (literally) on many children. It's painful to realize, but the beatings and the abuse were a normal part of life. Hey, but there is an upside: we did learn Hebrew!

Beatings??? I NEVER SAW one happen in 13 years at the school as a student or ever as a parent. Fact is that I did witness intimidation, and MINOR and I emphasize minor corporal punishment [the pinch of the cheek, the slap on the hand ] which today would get a teacher arrested, but were part and parcel of school life of the late fifties, early sixties.
Flatbush was FAR from perfect, but it was a good school that taught kids. It had the advantage of having a highly motivated student body and motivated parents, whom I MIGHT ADD would not tolerate their kids being abused.
re: Robert in the minority. Let me point out a very very telling statistic about the school. In the past fifteen years 57% of the student body had at least one parent who was an alumnus of the school, and a survey done in 1996 of available graduates showed that about 70% would send their kid to the school [they may have lived out of town, or too far away to send a child]. If that is the case, that means a whole lot of alumni were pretty happy with their educational experience. That is not to forgive or excuse an abusive teacher.

Robert,I know of you.I don't recall whether we were in ,forgive me, Joel Braverman High School, together for one year -that would be Sept.1964-June 1965.I attended glorious Etz Chaim for my esteemed primary school yeshiva education prior to my Flatbush High school years where Mr.Bryk did the same crap to me and others that you endured.I later graduated the aforementioned high school and remember your wife but didn't really know her. You see, my closest friends were my fellow morons of "403",the Lower"B" class and I too found this segregation vile.Anyway,the very first thing that ever clicked with me in therapy was that you can feel anything you want to-as long as you don't physically hurt someone.I don't forgive Mr Bryk and I don't blame you for never forgiving this vile "icon" of the Modern Orthodox Brooklyn Community of the 1950's and 60's who terrorized you and many others. P.S. Mel F. who sent me this is a lifelong friend and speaks highly of you.

I had a life blemishing experience at Flatbush. I attended during the mid-70's early 80's. This wretched story left me traumatized until this day. One morning in 9th grade, being the laid back student I was I had not completed my homework assignment. My teacher Élan Benamy had found out I had not completed the assignment and went completely mad. He then went to the pencil sharpener and began to sharpen his pencil. I had no idea what he would do. I had originally thought he would stab me being the freak of nature and sick pedophile that he is. He then grabbed my skull and held my jaw shut and began to insert the sharp pencil up my left nostril and began poking the up and down and to the side. I felt like if he had gone another inch that the pencil would come out of my eye. Hordes of blood immediately rushed out of my nose. The class was watching in complete awe and some of them even began to shriek for help. He grabbed 2 cotton balls out from his breast pocket and shoved them up my nose to cease the rivers of blood exiting my nose. I began to roar like a beast from the excruciating pain. I spanked him across his dirty face. He retaliated by grabbing my fingers and bending them back almost pulling them out of socket. I left the room sobbing that he had made me bleed my own blood. Mr. Benamy, that sick pervert chased after me grabbed me by my rear and threw me back in to the class. The next day I had went to tell the principal what had happened to me and he had called me a liar and sent me to the guidance department and actually suggested that I needed mental help.

Tizi:

Thank you for telling your awful, awful story. When I decided to tell of the abuse that i suffered at the hands of Joel Braverman, I did not expect this outpouring of like stories. It is obvious that the myth of the great and progressive Yeshiva Flatbush is built on a foundation of sand.

I have learned that people are basically sheep; if they are told that a school is wonderful often enough, well, it becomes truth. No matter what facts come to light. Flatbush was a kind of hell for a great many students and I'm glad that finally the stories are being told.

Wow. I came across this posting by accident and I don't know where to begin. I too attended Yeshivah of Flatbush, both the elementary school and the high school. I graduated the high school in the mid-70s. Firstly, your description of being physically abused by Mr. Braverman triggered a recollection of Mr. Braverman that I had forgotten -- not as bad as yours. When I was in 2d grade, on a Sunday, my parents and I were in the school for some function, and we met Mr. Braverman in the cafeteria. In front of my parents he squeezed my cheek. It hurt for the rest of the day. We were talking about my grades and I mentioned I got a B+ and that triggered the squeezing. Until now I had completely forgotten it. I did not know Mr. Braverman was that sadistic but he retired as principal when I was in 4th grade I think -- replaced by Rabbi Himmel and then by Rabbi Lichtiger. Concerning sadistic teachers, yes there still were when I was there in the elementary school. I never had him but one was Mr. (Mar) Feldman. He supervised the Hebrew recess. I saw him on numerous occasions smash his fist across a child's face. There was a Hebrew substitute -- we called him "The Doc." We had him one day in fifth grade, when Mrs. Eliezri was absent. He literally picked up MK either by the neck or the shirt and tossed him at least seven feet into the door. I think MK had a concussion, not sure, but I know he was injured and he was out for several days. MK's parents took him out of the school after the year was over. Mrs. Eliezri was a piece of work herself. She mentally tortured kids. Later on at a reunion I met up with a former classmate and the latter told me that a sibling nearly converted to Catholicism (after college) as a result of the mental anguish, still scarring, from Mrs. Eliezri. I also had Mr. Alter one year - 4th grade Hebrew. This man was a schizophrenic. One minute he would be making jokes and causing the kids to laugh hysterically, the next minute he'd be screaming and hitting them. I'll never forget how for Chanukah he taught the kids to extinguish the candles by pinching them with the fingers. I did not do it but others did. What kind of person would teach this to 4th graders? The reputation of Mr. Weinstein and Mr. Zilber was throughout the school. I think Mr. Zilber taught in the high school also. He retired a year before I would have had him. I thanked my lucky stars that he retired and didn't have to be in his class. I am sure that if I racked my brain I would recall other instances of abusive teachers.

>>> Now I want to discuss something that still decades later has not lapsed from my consciousness -- to the point where I still remark about it to my wife who keeps on accusing me of not letting go of the past. This is about cruelty not from teachers but from students. Every year there were kids who were the butts of harassment and taunting from other kids. I was one of the victims. I won't describe it in detail. I wasn't even the worst-mistreated. There was a kid in my class who cried when the kids mistreated him -- which provoked further harassment. I never reached that level thank God. But the mistreatment I suffered in elementary school continually resounds to this very day. This was a failing of the school then -- that it did not teach that derech eretz had to be maintained to fellow students. But if teachers didn't need derech eretz when dealing with kids, I guess it is naive to think that kids would be inculcated with it vis-a-vis other kids.

>>> I found that things were different in the high school. Like night and day. There were enough kids from other elementary schools that the student population was diverse enough such that the taunting by other kids stopped. I even was elected to the student government so I have nothing negative to say about the kids v. kids atmosphere. In the high school, I never saw any violence by teachers. I even got to like some of them, e.g., Mr. Rosenthal (Spanish), Dr. Birnbaum (librarian), Rabbi Bronfeld (social studies), Rabbi Morris (math). At the end of my senior year, Rabbi Morris asked me if I wanted to make some money helping him mark lower grade math Regents. There were a few teachers who were moody and could lose their tempers -- but no physical violence. I do criticize a few. Rabbi Haramati (praised by legions of graduates) was not a saint. I think he did possess a vindictive personality and, in my opinion, delighted when kids gave wrong answers. I wasn't great in Hebrew but he left me alone for the most part since I never talked to other kids during classes. There was one teacher, Mr. Wyszkowski, new to the high school, who engaged in what today would be considered sexual harassment, such as looking under girls' skirts. It was even alluded to in my high school yearbook. However, I never saw any physical abuse of kids by high school teachers.

>>> Now I have to relate how my own experiences in Flatbush impacted on my choice of school for my children. I did not send my kids to Flatbush when they became of school age. I sent them elsewhere. This had nothing to do with the teachers. It was due to the abuse I received from fellow students. I did not want my children to suffer like I did. However, my son was receiving an inferior education at his yeshivah. My wife and I had a big dispute with my daughter's yeshivah because my wife sent an e-mail to other parents criticizing a certain teacher's project which, for her grade level, was stupidly immature. At this other school (can't name it because other parents would know who we are), the principals accused us in a meeting of abusing our daughter. My daughter casually remarked to her teacher that we might send her to a summer class given in a college for young kids. The teacher reported this to a principal. At this high level meeting of principals and administrators, not only were we accused of slandering the teacher in the e-mail but we were accused of child abuse. What was the child abuse? That we were going to send our daughter to summer school. We were lectured that we should be spending the summer in a bungalow colony with our kids. I nearly ripped out the woman principal's throat who said this. I had to restrain myself. It was then and there I knew what I had to do. I had to overcome my feelings about Flatbush and try to get her transferred for the next year. And that is what my wife and I did. Flatbush took very few transferred kids in the middle grades but they took my daughter into the 5th grade and my son into the 2d grade. As their new year began, and we were in the school a few times, I saw that this was a different Flatbush. The kids were actually taught to respect their fellow students. It was all over the walls. The teachers were different in their attitudes also.

>>> Which leads me to the next point. Even in the elementary school there were some decent teachers from when I was there decades earlier. Some of those same teachers were still there -- 30 years later! I will specifically mention the Hebrew librarian, Gveret Lapide, who I never knew to be a mean person. She still, 30 years later, records the pages of Hebrew books read by the kids. This lady can't be doing it for the money. It has to be out of a desire to see the kids learn Hebrew.

>>> Which leads me to another observation. Flatbush has always been educationally rigorous. If you survived academically in Flatbush you could do anything you undertook later on in life. The rigor of two tracks of a full-course load forces students to manage their time well and adopt good study habits. I know my daughter (now in high school) and son will do well in college and graduate school because of their having gone to Flatbush.

>>> Finally, just as nations have had to deal with their past by openly discussing what took place, I think Flatbush needs to do the same. They are propagating a history of the school which is rosy and glamorous but reconciliation with the past is necessary also. The U.S. has apologized for its detention of the Japanese during WW II, South Africa had a Truth & Reconciliation Commission, and former Communist countries have exorcised their ghosts. It's time Flatbush did the same thing because obviously there lingers in many former students, now in their 40s-60s, a very bitter taste. Maybe openly discussing it in a Bulletin issue would be appropriate. I don't think they'll ever do it but they should.

Dear Alaskabroke:

Thanks for the comment. Gosh where to begin? I think at the ending where you suggest that Flatbush take a look at its history and perhaps do a rewrite. This is never going to happen. No way are these people going to admit that their cherished heroes are a bunch of child beaters. And in truth, I could care less. Braverman and his savages are dead, burning in gehenna, and for me that's quite enough. Flatbush sounds like it has some serious social problems to deal with right now; examining its past, I really believe, is a waste of time. I'm just pleased that these stories have, at last, come to light. I just wonder how many awful stories we're not hearing. After all, this is just one little blog.

Perhaps my next film will be about the good old days in Yeshiva Flatbush. Sort of an urban Jewish horror film. Now that I think about it, it's quite promising. I can just see it: John Malkovich as Joel Braverman? I like it, I like it alot.

I was interested in this topic because I live about a block from Y of F (elementary division), and some of my neighbors send their kids there. I must say, most of these comments remind me far more of my family's experiences with PUBLIC schools than with my neighbors' experiences with today's yeshivas (including Y of F).

For a few public-school examples: my mother, a polio victim, was forced by her teachers in the 50s to crawl under her desk during that era's (absurd) nuclear-warning drills, despite the fact that with her leg braces, it took her 20 minutes to manage the feat, and she was unable to get up again without assistance. I wont even repeat some of the things the other kids did to her. Suffice it to say, she was quite relieved when further surgery necessitated home schooling.

Similarly, my brother in the early 70s was beaten for two years for writing with his left hand. He never did learn to write properly. In junior high school, he was frequently condemned to days locked in a tiny supply closet as punishment for "disruption". I could go on... eventually, he dropped out of school.

I personally spent most of my "educational" years trying to avoid being tripped, beaten, robbed, pushed down the stairs, and otherwise physically or verbally tortured by other students... while learning absolutely nothing of any academic value (having entered school years advanced from my so-called peer group).

Meanwhile, my neighbors' kids look forward to school, chatter excitedly about competitions and prizes for parasha-learning or spelling or whatever, and are generally bright children, happy, well-adjusted, and inspired to learn. One friend's 11-year-old son is fluent in 4 languages (english, hebrew, yiddish, & aramaic), and is reading bits of talmud that would stump the average american law school student, even in translation. I challenge any of you to find the 11-year-old public school student who is even literate in his native language.

I know where I'm sending my kids, for sure...

Channah Y:
Thanks for writing. I'm terribly sorry to hear about what was done to your mother. Several people have written saying that there was plenty of abuse in public schools. We all pretty much agree that in those days hitting and humiliating students was par for the course in society in general. And there is no question that there were yeshiva students who had good experiences and were never touched. There was good and there was bad.

And by the way, all my children have gone to Yeshiva here in Los Angeles.

I was a student at the Yeshivah of Flatbush during the late 70's and early 80's. As i am reading what all of you have to say about the cruelty of these teachers i come to think is that how it really was. Did the teachers actually treat us like that? The answer that comes to my mind is no. I did although hear about several incidents and actually witnessed one that went on. The one mentioned previously with Mr. Benamy and the pencil jabbing incident was the one that i witnessed and i do not believe that there were so many more incidents with teachers pouncing on children. Although i am sure several of these claims may be true i feel that many are over exaggerated and these claims are a one sided story spiced up to sound much worse and make the teller sound more interesting. I am sure this was created to share stories that actually happened (in their minds) and not fabricated rubbish that people find amusing. Peoples reputations are being tarnished by these fabrications and i think only true incidents should be shared.

As the mother of children school in different Yeshiva day schools, and having had two of them graduate from the Yeshiva of Flatbush High School, I felt it necessary to add my comment here:
My own childhood was spent in a Yeshiva Day School outside of New York. While we girls were not victimized, I can recall seeing the boys physically "reprimanded" by having their ears pulled, faces slapped, and a variety of other lesser offenses. This was not the norm, but actually was perpetrated by some of the Rabbeim that hailed from the Hassidic communities in New York. Many of them were re-hired year after year and it was generally accepted that anyone who got this form of harsh treatment really deserved it. We should remember that this was during an era when the parents were themselves raised in a "Spare the rod, spoil the child" type of environment. Only the most progressive households had already started to curb corporeal punishment of their children.
NOW, as to The Yeshiva of Flatbush. I suppose that the type of violent physical behavior you described would not be tolerated there today when one considers it in general. However, that does not stop the fact that there are certain gross violations that still go on, with full awareness of everyone from board members to children, and NO ONE steps up to the plate to take corrective action for one reason: MONEY. If you are connected to any form of monetary support to the school, you may sexually harrass children, or psychologically damage them, or simply teach them wrong or not at all. If you are an adminstrator you will be allowed to continue to utilize your position to gain power, not to perform the task you should be expected to do by virtue of your title.
And WHERE are the parents? Well for years any parent sending their child to Flatbush had to be on that supportive cheerleading bandwagon, or face total ostracization as well as the possibility that you might be asked to take your child from their hallowed halls and into another "substandard (by their interpretation)" school. They so villified any school other than The Yeshiva of Flatbush that it was considered a fate worse than death to have this embarrassment befall your family.
I suffered the years of their high school antics for the sake of my children who actually said they WANTED to attend the school. I knew what it was. They came to understand --- yet they maneuvered themselves through the school well and derived the best they could from it. Being bright and intellectual kids they survived and made good friends while there.
WHAT actually surprised me was that while I was so happy to finally be through with the school, SO WERE MOST OF THOSE LOYAL FLATBUSH PARENTS WHO HAD SWORN BY THE SCHOOL SINCE THE DAY THEIR CHILDREN ENTERED NURSERY THERE!!!!!! Who would have believed that they too really despised the nonsense that went on within the hallowed halls, but were properly conditioned to believe it was "their only normal option".
The Orthodox Jewish community has come clean finally re the Lanner issue and the issue of other well known abusers who have rabbinical status. How about dealing with Mr. Benamy???? Has everyone gone mad? Or is it actually possible that at least one of the many many stories told about this pedophile just could be an indicator of the tip of the iceberg full of adults who still bear the brunt of his abuse in their memories? For all of you who said the abuse in Flatbush at the hands of teachers/administrators has stopped, think again.
Remember too that not all abuse is physical. There are unforgiveable acts of cruelty that still go on that leave wounds that never heal and damage children for the rest of their lives. Accountability is the responsibility of everyone connected with a school.
As far as the fact that it has become a "Syrian" school, just take a look at the diametrics of the Brooklyn community --- much of the intellectual modern orthodox ashkenazi crowd has been smothered out and run for the hills of Northern New Jersey or the Five Towns in Long Island. Many of those left are either looking forward to moving or not financially able to do so. And if they lack the finances to move, they certainly lack the payola to make demands of the Yeshiva of Flatbush.
And, to those of you who think that there is comfort in the fact that "not too much" abuse of that kind goes on today, I say that the only acceptable attitude is ZERO TOLERANCE. If ethics don't rule you, please remember that children can get abuse for free in public schools, but that abuse is paid for and signed for in prohibitive amounts of money by parents to schools, especially to Yeshiva of Flatbush!!
If a person with name recognition has stepped forth to try to open this issue do not lose the opportunity to move this forward.
An apology from Flatbush might help those who suffered in the past to move on. A move to stop the current abuses would prevent them having to do it again in the future.

Robert,
When I was in second grade in HIRC, now ASHAR, my mean teacher Mrs. Mir, who was a holocaust survivor once punched me in the head because my neighbor whispered something to me during class. I am now a wife and mother of four and although this happened to me many years ago I still have not forgotten or forgiven her.

This is answering Jack who feels that "reputations are being tarnished."

With good reason. You yourself admit that you witnessed the "pencil incident." Yet you accuse others of exagerrating. Odd, considering the pencil incident is almost beyond belief. Every word I wrote is true. Nothing anyone else has written sounds at all outlandish. Just business as usual at Flatbush. Your concern for these barbarians is deeply touching.

Mr. Benamy is still teaching in the high school. He has now been with Flatbush for approximately 35 years. I am concerned because my daughter may have him next year for biology. Has anybody heard of any improprieties recently? What can we do to have him removed? Why isn't the media picking up on this blog, Mr. Avrech having only posted the Joel Braverman story a week ago?

As I read these posts, I am stunned on so many different levels. I attended the Los Angeles public school system from 1959-1973. The worst incident I ever witnessed was my 4th grade teacher making a student put gum on his nose when caught chewing it in class. I am sorry to all of you for even having a story like this to post. To Jack: As for tarnishing reputations, it seems to me that the only people tarnishing their reputations, were those committing these abusive acts, not the ones reporting them. And, if you were a witness to the pencil incident, I am wondering why you would say these stories are exaggerations? I realize that many of you would not refer to yourselves as victims, as Robert has stated. But these stories should be told...no innocent child should suffer at the hands of self-rightous, abusive adults. The concern for protecting the reputations of the perpetrators is one of the greatest curiousities of human nature...to protect the evil doers, rather than rally around (and sometimes not even believe) those that are innocent and being abused. I applaud you all for coming forward.

Randi:

Thanks so much for your articulate comment. There are some people who will always defend up for the perpetrators in our midst. I believe they do this for several reasons: many consider themselves contrarians, they take pride in taking "minority positions." It's a form of adolescent rebellion. Others do it because it makes them feel self-righteous. No matter the reason, these people always pop up and manage to make the evil in our midst that much more comfortable.

i am a junior at Flatbush High now and I can tell you that Flatbush needs a major facelift. Im not only talking about the building (bc g-d forbid they change it since 1950) but also the teachers and their methods of teaching. I hate Flatbush. i understand that my highschool years are supposed to be the most fun but their not. Flatbush has become so religeous and uptight that theyve taken the fun out of school. They care about their reputation more then their students our their happiness. I liked Rabbi Statmauer. He was a very kind man to me last year and helped our grade out in a time of need and if you have a problem with him then your a homophobe. And dont get me started on Lonny Benamy and all ther rumors about him.
If you were to ask me, the real problem in the school is Rabbi Ronald Levy. Ronald has his own agenda. He would sell the souls of the children before he would let the schools so called "good reputation" go bad. Let's face it people, the schools reputation has been down the toilet for a while now and the controvercy that's happening there isn't helping one bit.
OK to clarify the whole SY vs J-dub thing. I am an SY (syrian, sephardic, whatever you call it.) and theres no "feud" or rivalry in flatbush. were all equal. sure we talk about each group behind their backs and we all make funn of each other but at the end of teh day were all flatbushers and together. and ashkenaz people run flatbush now not syrians so we don't always get our way. and if u WANTED a topic to talk about why not bring up the drugs? obviously u people have no idea whats going on in this little bubble we all live in.

i am a junior at flatbush high now and i can tell you that flatbush needs a major facelift. Im not only talking about the building (bc g-d forbid they change it since 1950) but also the teachers and their methods of teaching. I hate flatbush. i understand that my highschool years are supposed to be the most fun but their not. Flatbush has become so religeous and uptight that theyve taken the fun out of school. They care about their reputation more then their students our their happiness. I liked Rabbi Statmauer. He was a very kind man to me last year and helped our grade out in a time of need and if you have a problem with him then your a homophobe. And dont get me started on Lonny Benamy. Rumor has is this year that he molested a girl a year older than me but then again i also hear he has cancer and aids, so no real proof there.
If you were to ask me, the real problem in the school is Rabbi Ronald Levy. Ronald has his own agenda. He would sell the souls of the children before he would let the schools so called "good reputation" go bad. Lets face it people, the schools reputation has been down the toilet for a while now and the controvercy thats happening there isnt helping one bit.
OK to clarify the whole SY vs J-dub thing. I am an SY (syrian, sephardic, whatever you call it.) and theres no "feud" or rivalry in flatbush. were all equal. sure we talk about each group behind their backs and we all make funn of each other but at the end of teh day were all flatbushers and together. and ashkenaz people run flatbush now not syrians so we donty always get our way. and if u WANTED a topic to talk about why not bring up the drugs? obviously u people have no idea whats going on in this little bubble we all live in.

I went to Flatbush from Nursery through HS (1974-1988). I never witnessed the kind of physical abuse described above. I'm very sorry to hear of the above incidents- I suspect that some may be exaggerated, but on the whole, I am convinced there was serious physical abuse of the students at Flatbush over the years. I doubt this was terribly different than in other institutions at that time. This doesn't justify the sadistic behavior of those a-holes, but it needs to be put in perspective.
Flatbush was (& I suspect still is) a great school because there was something for everyone- if academics weren't your strong suite, there were community service projects you could get involved in (Pesach packages; Yachad; the "South Bronx" committee); if sports were your thing, we had great opportunities for basketball, softball, swimming, hockey, etc. There was Masterpiece Workshop if you were in to the Arts & plenty of social outings as well (ice-skating & Shmulka Bernsteins; Falcon games; Jr. & Sr. shabbatons & of course, seminar). Being Ashkenaz, it was a great opportunity to learn about the Sephardic customs, and although being called an 'itchy' on multiple occasions, we all got along well.
Again, I'm sorry to hear that kids were harmed in the halls of Flatbush. I just wanted to offer my perspective on the school.
Shabbat Shalom.

I am a graduate of the Yeshivah of Flatbush - both High School and elementary. All of you are discussing your traumatic experiences inflicted upon you by teachers. Just reading it - whether it is embellishment or exaggeration - almost brought me to tears. The fact is, all of you have been living your life with this awful memory and it has haunted you from your youth.
On another topic, my flatbush experience was definitely awful but not by the teachers or faculty but by the students.
The Sephardic Community has to be a lot more aware of the painful experiences they are causing their peers. Rumors, lies and judgements lead to all sorts of harrassment. The details of my miserable experience are too fresh and painful to discuss. They are also very specific and I wish to remain annoynymous.
I have become resentful of my community and looked for every possible out up until I realized that this is stupid. There is no way I will change anything by avoidance - the best way to make things better is to advertise it to the Community so that they can notice their hypocracy.

Thank you for this website.

I graduated from Flatbush High a couple of years ago and attended from kindergarten all the way to high school. While I will fondly look back at my experiences with my classmates, there is something to be said about the faculty and a number of concerning issues.
First off it is clear that Flatbush's reputation is plummeting year after year. It is plummeting in the eyes of many of its graduates, in the eyes of the students' parents, and most importantly in the eyes of the college admissions officers. Y of F used to be a superb "prep" school and its students got into the Ivy's and the other top schools. When I graduated, only a handful of kids were accepted into the Yale’s, Harvard’s, and Penn’s of the world, and most students ended up in CUNY and Suny schools (not that that is particularly bad). Many of my friends who had excellent GPA's and SAT scores were rejected from the best colleges, even when they applied via early admission. I don't know if this is because of Flatbush's reputation diminishing, or because of a crap job by the incompetent college guidance department, but whatever it is, Flatbush is just not the same.
Secondly, many of the "old guard" teachers have left (Kronman, both Harmattis, Morris, Wyzekowski, Lewis, Lonny rumored to be gone by the end of this year) and 20-something year old YU kids are taking their places. These young guys and girls may be intelligent and hard working young men and women, but they have absolutely no idea how to control a classroom of high school teenagers.
And most concerning to me is one teacher, Joel Wolewolsky. I'm sure most of you know he has taught math at the Yeshivah for god only knows how long. Wolly, for years, also held private one-on- one chats with students, he feels, have certain issues he would like to help them resolve. I was one of those kids who he talked with and, quite frankly, those discussions freaked the shit out of me, and many of my peers as well. He asked us what we felt about religion, work ethic, and our future. Quite disturbingly, however, he also brought up questions about our sexuality. He is infamous for asking his students about how often, and why they masturbate. Why in gods name was a 60 year old man asking 16 year old kids about masturbation? Looking back, my friends, peers, and I all feel that the man is a sick pervert and if we had our way we would have never been trapped into those disgusting talks. While Wolly never did touch us or molest us, these questions were entirely inappropriate.
There are other administrators that I've lost much respect for, now that I see what a corrupt hierarchy Flatbush really is (Lonny, Rabbi Levy etc). Maybe Statdmauer had it right by getting out of there and vanishing. He was a good man, regardless of his sexuality. I only hope that whoever runs this school in the future will have the balls to purge the administration of its corrupt leaders and find competent teachers and administrators who understand their students and how to run a modern orthodox yeshivah.

I wonder if you had thought to edit the Wikipedia entry on the Yeshivah of Flatbush regarding the Braverman issue. I witnessed his intimidation of kids, was a victim of it myself and had a friend who was nearly psychologically destroyed by it. While I never saw the physical abuse and I had good experiences at Flatbush, I know his anger was crazed and he set up an atmosphere of utter fear and horror.

I was sent the URL about it all just recently and I admire that you made this public.

dont edit the wikipedia too much, or with opinion. they would end up taking it down. as a matter of fact i happen to have gotten my hands on a previous opinionated wikipedia article about flatbush....here ya go:

The Yeshivah of Flatbush Joel Braverman High School is a Jewish institute in the Borough of Brooklyn in New York. It has become a "staple" in many Jewish communities. Although it is looked upon as one of the most prestigious school in New York City, in actuality, it is really a disappointment to many and the main cause of depression, drug abuse, and sexual harrassment within students. Daily life in Flatbush would be described by students a torture chamber. Some students, such as [snipped] a freshman, do not even attend on a daily basis. Other freshmen such as [snipped] and [snipped] have said that the school is "corroding" and "gruesome." From the moment students walk in at 6:55 AM, the first object in sight is a black jailbar fence. Most students take this as symbolism of the imprisonment that stands before them for the next 10.5 hours of the day. Although highly regarded, Flatbush's faculty is seriously incompetent. Certain teacher just do not have the credentials to educate the students. Some teachers, like Mr. Stephen A., or as he is known as Rhino 'Bramskies, cannot control the class or even their own minds. He has claimed to have taught numerous celebrities, such as Lucy Liu, in pathetic attempts to appeal to students. After a countless amount of bribes to health and safety inspectors, Flatbush has finally been passed on tests. Cockroaches, rodents and dust can be spotted in every single room of the building, except for the teachers lounge and principal's office. Students constantly complain about sickness and pains in throats and heads. There is, however, one group of students who do enjoy Flatbush. They are known only as "401 Geeks." These kids constantly study, and are not naturally smart. They emit a gruesome odor that consists of corn chips and cumin. This is because they are too immersed in their studies to shower and clean themselves up. It has become a well known problem in the cluttered hallways of Yeshivah of Flatbsuh. It is still unknown as to why Flatbush received such a high reputation. Students have long awaited the arrival of the truth that is told in this article.

i edited some of the article because i didnt like some of the things it said. there was a whole thing about lonny, but at this point, i decided weve all done enough lonny bashing. especially with his health in limbo (he supposedly has spinal tumor or who knows what)...additionally, i recently found out about a story where lonny really helped a person psychologically....im not saying hes exactly an angel or anythign...hell i just finished freshman year...and he hated me. and i hated him. and we clashed. and i got kicked out of his class once or twice a week. and i paid him 90$ first semester. but watever. enough about him.... so yea.....

flatbush is a bad school, and the only reason i bother waking up is to go hang out with my friends. there are ways to defeat the system and hang out all day.

As a student in Flatbush during the 50s and early 60's I was witness to Mr. Braverman's physical and mental abuse of students. But I must also say that there is a collective blame in that it was allowed by the officers and trustees of the school who knew what was going on and never attempted to but a halt to it. It was also a period of time where LD, ADD, SPecial Ed, Resource room did not exist. You were either catagorized as bright or dumb. There was no taecher training nor sensitivity toward students with special needs. If there is any consolation, I visited Mar Braverman a number of times during his final illness. He was reduced to a helpless human being unable to fend for himself, lying in his apatrment in a hospital bed and totally dependent on others. Perhaps thsi was G-d's way of payback.
With regard to Flatbush today and specifically the high school- the big problem is that teachers were given tenure and think that no one can now fire them no matter what they do. With regard to Lonny- the man should have been brought up on charges years ago for the physical and mental abuse he heaped on students. One time a student did not know an answer in class and he proceeded to call him the village idiot. Unfortunately, Rabbi Eliach always covered for him and was blkind to his actions. I must also say that amongst the afculty, Rabbi Besser, is perhaps the best educator Flatbush has. He is loved and rsspected by all. Also with regards to Rabbi Levy-I have known him to be a fair and just person who does what he percieves to be right and I think some of the comments about him are unfair.

Just found this site and am astounded at some of the things written here. I was there in the 60's and basically went my own way.Mr. Braverman was a sick person who we visited at his apartment and I only got to know hin at the very end,just before he really turned ill. As far as I am concerned, the meanest teacher when I was there was Mr. Wallach who I had for three years for math and who hated my guts and was verbally abusive to me. Thank G-d I was able to just turn him off and did well just to spite him.However, when my kids attended Flatbush it was another story. Great teachers that I had had,changed for the worse.
Suddenly, overnight, Flatbush had to join the right wing movement and these teachers turned into rabbis overnight, including Haramati and Levy and Schwed,too, in the elementary school. Amazing! Such scholars that a summer coulkd change so many of them so quickly. But the worst was the fact that they allowed teachers such as Lonny Benamy to teach. He is and was a liar, a cruel and vicious personality who has no business in education and I say that as someone who taught and pricipaled for many a year. Not only was he verbally abusive, but he looked to get kids in trouble and led many a wavering child down the wrong path rather than helping that child stay out of trouble.I would also like to see an accounting of his notorious fines that he collected for so many years. Just where did that money go? The administration, including Eliach,Levy and Bachman were of absolutely no use, even harmful, as they refused to hear the parents when they complained about Lonny and backed him to the hilt.I wonder what he had on them?!! He is despicable and so are they for allowing the situation to continue for so many years.If he had started his "career" now, he would have been sued over and over again.Shame on Flatbush for allowing that to happen, for picking on the weak and not helping and for letting a wonderful and often deserved reputation go down the tubes for this scum.

Yeah, EDM, I'm sure your kids were perfect angels and Lonny is just the evil incarnate. He steals all the money, and his main goal in life is to get the kids he doesn't like into trouble. Get a life. He's a good teacher, an excellent educator, and if you're not a hooliagan (like your children probably are) a pretty fair guy. We love you Lonny Benamy. You rock my world!

As you do not know my kids, kindly do not comment about them. He may rock your world but there are many others who find him just the opposite. When you proceed to call a student "a village idiot" for not knowing an answer to a question, it speaks volumes about that person. So Dr. House you can say all you want about the great Lonny. It doesn't excuse his actions.

Robert,

I feel for you, not just because I grew up with you and knew you, but because as bad as it was 20 years ago, it was double that 30 and 40 years ago!(you were obviously, WAY older than me, but I lived on 80th and you were on 81st).

I agree with you that life back then is much different than life today. Today, 3/4's of "standard" crap wouldn't fly. I also heard from quite a few people that Yeshiva of Flatbush basically could use a really good overhaul, but then again, I hear so many complaints about so many Yeshivot, its insane. I guess no one can be perfect. Also, back then, it was Black Hat, Modern Orthodox or Conservative and today its an additional 8-10 levels mixed in.

Best Wishes, Jason M.

Jason:

Thanks so much for writing. Yes, back then it was really hard. It's amazing that so many of us came out of it okay—better than okay in many cases. Here on the west coast, I have to admit, the experiences of our children has been, for the most part, positive. The yeshivot are warm and nurturing and our kids have emerged well-adjusted and devoted to Torah. B'H, times have changed for the better, at least west of the Mississippi.

Hi. I attended Flatbush from 1st grade through H.S.- graduated in '85. I must say, having not really thought about it until I read this blog- Lonny once kicked me & my friend off of a school bus in NYC after a trip to a broadway show & left us by ourselves to make our way back to the school. My friend's mom raised hell the next day & they made him apologize- he HATED doing that. He was a jerk-the WORST teacher & person. Ronald Levy was in the same league as far as I'm concerned- busy going around the school staring at girls knees- b/c if they wore a miniskirt, they sent you home. When I once commented to him that a Rabbi shouldn't spend his days looking at girls legs, he sent me home. Other than that, I had good experiences there. I also grew up near you- your dad was my Rabbi. Good luck to you in your endeavors.

Just read an article about you in the Jerusalem Report. Kol Hakavod. Your blog is great. Keep up the great work!!

GMS:

Thanks so much. Have a lovely and meaningful Shabbos.

I attended YofF from 1973 to 1981. The humiliation we were subjected to was abusive. I witnessed children being pushed and grabbed. I had one teacher in the 6th grade named Miss Klein who would return tests and announce which groups recived scores in 90's 80's, 70's ect.. This so humiliating to so many students. Throughout the years when principals would return exams they would publically ridicule a student if they failed. I read the comment about Ms. Ribalow. I witnessesd her pushing many students in to desks, tables and instruments. I remeber one time when she threw a student who fell face first into a bass drum. The principal when I was there was Rabbi Meyer Kehana. During lunch one day he became infuriated that a student was talking while he was addressing the cafeteria and threw him in to a lunch table. The student must have suffered some intype of injury to his ribs. Both he and Ms. Ribalow would be arrested today. The student body when I attended was mostly Syrian. The Ashkenazi students were referred to as J-Dub which looking back now is so derogetory and racist. Teachers never once addressed this. It was so sad that there was such distinct lines between our people. In 6th grade I remember the Syrian students Chanting SY at the top of their lungs and attacking the Ashkenazi students during recess. Again no interventions from the teachers. I purposely failed the entrance exam to the high school so I wouldn't have to subjected to further torture.It is sad that I felt at home in public school and was no longer in fear. My experiences at the Yeshiva scarred me. With a lot of support I was able to deal with the issues I developed from my years at Flatbush. I am a successful Social Worker who is an Executive in a Social Service agency. I hope things are different now. I would never subject my own kids to this torture. I hope thing are better now for everyone's sake.

M4:

Thanks so much for contributing. It's odd, when I wrote this post I had no idea I would kick off such a chain of memories in cyberspace. But it appears that my times at Flatbush were not all that unique. Which is quite sad.

Let us all hope that Yeshiva Flatbush is now a very different school.

I just received the new Flatbush Bulletin. According to what I read everything is wonderful. It's the school to be in. I wonder?? I also received a letter about their dinner. They are honoring Rabbi Levy, amongst others. I wonder how others on the blog feel about this. Robert, you are doing a wondeful service. Bless you for giving us this opportunity to express our feelings.

GMS:

I also received the new Flatbush bulletin. Karen and I read it from cover to cover. We only wish Flatbush the very best. It is, afterall, where we met.

Thanks so much for your kind words.

Kol Tuv.

I attended flatbush hs in the 80s and now live Israel. I find it ironic that the extreme pro israel staff never made it (back) here. Although I can't prove it - my impression is that MTA graduates from my year have much higher aliyah rate than flatbush.I still hear of friends from MTA making aliyah.

My father never wanted me to go Flatbush. He told me that the teachers/principal embaress the students who do not do well. Now I know were he got this from. I didn't see this - though I could say they completely ignored me.

ISB:

Thanks so much for your comment.

It's funny, but about 20% of my classmates from BTA high school made aliyah to Israel. And BTA was not all that Zionistic. We were more, er, thugs. But in fairness to Flatbush, a lot of Flatbush students from that era did make aliyah.

Staff and teachers labored under terrible economic hardships.

I attended YOF from nursery until 8th grade (8th grade class of 82). There was a Principal Rabbi Kahane who lifted up a student Ralph Gindi (who was probably in the 6th or 7th grade at the time) and threw him on a lunch table. I didn’t see it happen, but Ralph wore a cast and crutches. The following year we saw Rabbi Meyer Kahane working on Avenue J, selling insurance or something. The teachers definitely put the fear in us and if you showed any weakness they would embarrass us. I remember the music teacher Ms. Ribalow used to scream at us and insult us. Once she threatened that if you saw any of us trick or treating she would have us kicked out of school. There is no way I would take that chance, but thinking back now, if I was wearing a mask, nobody would have known. Ha Ha

I attended YOF from kindergarden through the 12th grade and graduated from HS in the early 80's.
I too remember Rabbi Kahane's outbursts as well as Mrs. Ribalows tantrums (I can still picture her banging the keyboard and yelling at the children not participating in the sing alongs). I also remember Dr Ordan humiliating us during afternoon assembly with his booming voice(NO SOUND). My second grade teacher was particularly cruel, Mrs. Sanders was an elderly english teacher who would literally dig her nails into our forearms if we talked during class.
However, I also recall that most of the staff was very kind.
Mrs. Linick was the sweetest teacher I have ever had- she truely loved teaching hebrew poetry and never had an unkind word to say about any student. Mr Nier was a nice man who taught Social studies, Rabbi Russ also was a disciplinarian(Asst Principal) but underneath the rough exterior was a very good person.
HS was quite a different story, more than physical abuse there was extensive psychological abuse enforced.
Many of the bloggers have not mentioned the tremendous pressure placed on us to go to Israel for a year after HS.
I for one withstood the enormous pressure Dr Wolowlsky exerted on me, however, my junior year was a nightmare. Almost on a daily basis he would try to convince me to attend a yeshiva in Israel. He would also attempt to psychoanalyze me in the corridors practically bringing me to tears.
Lonny Benamy was a bit over the top,but to say he was a pedophile is untrue.He did date and marry a former student(M Goodman) but she was of legal age when they were dating.
On the other hand Rabbi Haramati had a maniacle viscious personality, how I dreaded sitting in his class.I felt very slighted when Rabbi Besser (yeah he was cool) called assembly to censor our listening to The Wall(Pink Floyd)or The Stranger(Billy Joel). If he would have tried to censor the Boss I think we would have rioted.
On a whole I received a stellar well rounded education at Flatbush which eventually prepared me for college and graduate school. Also, the school instilled in me a true sense of Zionism.

Dr Wolowolsky would be proud- I made aliyah over 13 years ago!!

I was at Flatbush from 1954-1966. I was a troubled child and believe that any school I would have attended would have been challenged by
me: e.g. by second grade I had already poured an entire bucket of dirty paint water down one of my classmates backs; by high school I was probably spending as much time in Zippy’s office as in class.

My great sadness is that there was no adult who had the capacity, or the responsibility, to look at my actions, (and those of others like me), and try to understand what was going on in our neshamot, and/or in our homes, to ask what had pushed us to the behaviors we were manifesting. I believe that that lack was a product of the times, not
of our specific school.

Recently, when I sorted through letters I had written, found in my parents home after their deaths, I found one wherein I tell my dad of
an incident between Braverman and me. Here is the relevant part including errors/typos; I was almost nine years old, in Fourth Grade:

Feb. 3, 1958

Today Braverman came in & asked Rabbi Teitelbaum how every body is doing in school. So finally he comes to me & Rabbi Teitelbaum said I can do a little better so he (Braverman) slaped my face back & fourth, so I said to him why doesn’t he pick on someone his own size. So he started to walk to Rabbi Teitelbaum. The whole class was laughing even Braverman & Teitelbaum....

Love & American Kisses from

Karen

Braverman never hit me again and actually, manifested a sort of affection, when he wasn’t suggesting, in a nasty way, that I try to grow up to be smart like my brother, rather than dumb like my sister.

Also, it seems I achieved a limited ‘heroine’ status among the kids, though I don’t remember this; even my sister, who was already a sophomore in the HS, heard about my standing up to Braverman.

I am grateful to the Yeshivah for the fighting spirit that got nurtured in me. To this day, with the exception of keeping up with the ongoing technological innovations, I find that it never occurs to me that I can’t do something; I just immediately try to figure out how I can make it happen.

I am grateful for Mr. Yardeni and the choir where I learned to sing in front of people, for the Publicity Commission where I learned about the many ways information could be presented, for the (now extinct) Cheerleaders where I learned about raising energy in large groups, and for the amazing Jewish education that I assimilated, in
spite of myself.

As for teachers, of those who were cruel to me, only one is still alive. Instead of him, I choose to remember and publicly acknowledge Miss Winer, my fifth and sixth grade English teacher,(does anyone know if she is still alive?), who saw my capacity, nurtured it, and was incredibly kind; she also got me started journaling. Because of
her encouragement, I made a pact with myself (at age 9) to read 10,000 pages a year, in addition to our schoolwork for Flatbush. I honored this commitment till I was 14.5 when, I assume, hormones kicked in; I am awed now when I see what I was reading then. I am ecstatic that because of her attentions and input into my life, I can now look back and tell you what I was doing/thinking/feeling on almost any given day from age 9 till my mother died 31 years later, when I stopped journaling on a daily basis.

That’s it. I believe that the totality of my Flatbush education, even with its ‘challenges’, was far better than anything any of my female
Chassidic ancestors ever had, or even could have dreamt about.

Thank you for this site.

Karen Rosenfeld Roekard

Berkeley, Ca./Deerfield Beach, Fl.

Yeshivah of Flatbush ES ’62 HS ‘66

Boston University BA '71 MBA '75

May you be comforted, or at least find moments of comfort, among the mourners of Zion, Jerusalem and the rest of the planet.

i have just read the entries. i attended the high school from 68-72. although i recieved a good academic education, there was no personal appreciation of anyone who was not in the a-class. my own children attend day schools that attend to the whole person. at parent-teacher meetings- the first question is always "how is your child feeling about being here every day - do you think your child is happy at school and at home,"etc. only after those issues, we discuss academic progress. these are thinking jews, not statistic/status obsessed jews. ahavat israel starts at home. the lack of personal respect and direction which is an important part of high school created a void for me which i had to make up on my own, i wasted a lot of time developmentally. my intelligence, ability, creativity and individuality were a non-issue being that i didn't rate on any particular status scale,ie class designation, social advantage, monetarty wealth, sports talent.i cannot remember recieving one complement in four years, my parents, a"h, volunteered tirelessly averaging 40 hours a week, for over 30 years.but this meant nothing to anyone. unfortunately, kids were not treasured, only looked at to improve statistics. i hope things are better now and parents request more for their sons and daughters.

I went to Flatbush H.S. from 64' to 68' I guess like many, I never quite felt like I fit in. What made it worse was, it was a stretch to get admitted to the school and I was under horrible pressure to do so. There was a time during my Freshman year when I pitched coins against the wall and got caught by Rabbi Heimowitz. Call it being naive, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.I was sent to Rabbi Eliach and he reminded me how lucky I was for being allowed into Flatbush. No matter how minor the infraction, even years later, he'd remind me of it. Perhaps he is a man of substance, but more than anything, he always evoked fear.

This story is quite terrifying. That guy should be put on a drug rehab program and let there until he comes to some common sense.