I'm speechless.

And while President Bush had a lovely statement to deliver regarding the mosque, did he have a lovely statement re: the synagogue? Just curious.

Tamara:

Apparently so is: The NY Times, The LA Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, everyone! Afterall, they're just impoverished Jews in a Muslim country and we wouldn't want those poor oppressed Muslims to get offended would we?

Not much coverage of the torture and murder of Ilan Halimi in France either.

Randi:

President Bush and his whole administration should be taken to task for their silence.

What, did you expect me to defend the indefensible?

And the torture murder of Ilan Halimi by Muslims in France, I didn't post about it because I saw that so many other in the blogosphere were. But perhaps I should have. Now I feel guilty.

Well, you don't need to feel guilty...I brought it up for you.

Randi:

I like feeling guilty.

you need babke

Randi:

I do. I really do.

Unfortunately, the world is very good at yawning when Jews get killed.....or in this instance a synagogue is destroyed.

Its funny that liberals think that conservatives never criticize their own. That notion couldn't be farther from the truth. Take this hubbub over the ports deal. One only has to tune into conservative talk radio....from Rush....Hannity....Larry Elder....Al Rantel....to see a wide ranging opinion on the ports deal.

Liberals, tend to RARELY ever criticize their own. Except for publications like the "New Republic" they drone on in a monotonous tone of self righteousness.

Lance:

Welcome back. I guess Dostoyevsky bored you too, huh?

Robert,

I had to gulp down quarts of coffee to keep awake during that post. ;)

Steyn makes the point we all must not forget.

Quoting from the column.....

''We won't stop the protests until the world obeys Islamic law.''>>

Its war people.

It's either them or us.

I wanted to quote this portion....

Something very remarkable is happening around the globe and, if you want the short version, a Muslim demonstrator in Toronto the other day put it very well:

''We won't stop the protests until the world obeys Islamic law.''

Laaaaance? You wouldn't be referring to me, would you, when you talk about liberals? Well, let's just assume it is.
First of all, liberals or conservatives should not be lumped into thinking one way or the other. I asked Robert that question, because I truly wanted to know if Bush had anything to say.

I think Robert is a big enough person to say when something has been violated. Just as I, "a liberal" am big enough to say so also.

Why the attack on liberals?
I kid alot about being "liberal" to Robert's "conservative", but I vary, depending on the issue. I don't like being lumped into one category.

Anyway, just wanted to address what you said.

Wellllll, Randi, I wasn't referring to you specifically.

I was responding in more general terms.

Of course, there are liberals and conservatives(as I pointed out)who think independently and are not the least be afraid to criticize their respective communities.

I "attack" liberals because their world view will get me and the ones I care about......KILLED!!

First of all Lance, I hope we are having a friendly discussion, because that was my intention.
Secondly...oy, am I really going to open this can of worms? sure, why not (Jake, where are you when I need you)Perhaps that is how you feel about the liberal attitude, but I'm not so sure our govt., at this moment, is keeping us from getting killed.
(never should have shown me how to shoot, Robert...has brought out my fiesty political side)

"I "attack" liberals because their world view will get me"

Wrong. It's not this or that. It's mad insane, I call them human animals. They can be all types shades politically and nationalities. It's the dogmatic knee jerk, auto response that you should be concerned about. Like the bit about 'bunch of commies' that got my fat goat earlier today.

In this case, the point is that what you smart people are forgetting, is that news, is a business.

Their agenda is to sell ads.

Muslims, in this form or that form, but especially the violence, sells. There happens to be a brand of Islam, many people have not heard about. It is called Sufi. They believe in non-violence, in peace, across the board. How come, you have never seen a program about them?

Be civilized Lance, don't stoop to their leve.

Randi, Lance:

I am not getting in the middle of this one, except to remind everyone that we are respectful of each other here at Seraphic Secret--especially such two good friends.

also if I read the story correctly, it is not that muslims levelled a synagouge, it was a construction accident. From what I have read, this area of Russia has good relations bet. muslims and others. Or some area there, I am not sure which one. But I would not cast the good w/ the bad just knee jerk style.

Oh yeah Mr. Respectful, what a joke, I'm laughing my whatever off. I need a drink.

Maybe there is a Ba'al Nefesh here who can explain this article. I quote from the link: "On February 22, 2006, an active synagogue, much beloved by its Jewish congregation, was destroyed after heavy construction equipment tore off the roof, crushed its concrete walls and drove through its sanctuary. This was the only active synagogue in the country of Tajikistan, a country north of Afghanistan and south of Russia. The synagogue was destroyed so the government can build a
grand palace for its president. “If the Jews want to have [rebuild] a synagogue, let them pay for it out of their own funds,” said Shamsuddin Nuriddinov, head of the City of Dushanbe, Religious Affairs Department. (This attack, 280 miles north of Kabul, Afghanistan, caused NO international outrage.)"

The link does not say who, if anyone, is responsible for what happened.

Now the remarks by Shamsuddin, are indeed a sham and shameful, but we don't have any indication that this was an act of sabo. I am not saying yes or no, only that the article R brings here is vague on that point, actually not vague, they simply state that the Shule was destroyed.

Perhaps some can make this issue clearer for all of us? Are we learning from this post that there are ignorant animals in this world? ok i did not know that.

Randi and Lance:

The only people I can't stand in politics are those who don't think for themselves. I see no evidence of that in either of you... so I'm relieved. I consider myself a liberal because "most" of what liberals at least used to believe, (I'm not so sure what they believe anymore), in this country I agree with. But I'd be the first to say that I might become a conservative tomorrow if my beliefs change. Luckily, despite the alarmist and dangerous rhetoric from both sides, I see absolutely NO philosophies from either side in America that really contradict my core beliefs. The real problem is we keep expecting less and less from our elected leaders and standard bearers. When conservatives who dodged the draft become our leaders in war, I get worried. When liberals who choose to live in the New York area's most exclusive community (Clintons) talk about being advocates for the lower middle class and the poor, I get worried. When we spend more time bashing each other rather than holding our elected leaders, (who are screwing both of our camps fortunes), feet to the fire, I get really worried.

Quick revelation: The reason no one in government will make a big deal about the synagogue story is that it won't get anyone elected or re-elected.

I would like to emphasize to Seraphic Secret readers that there was no construction accident in Tajikstan.

The synagogue was willfully destroyed by government/Muslim authorities.

Any other interpretation is just wrong -- or simply delusional.

I say that the story quotes is not a known news source. I am not saying that the post by Robert is correct or not, just that I would like to see a legimate link.

In any event, here in america, there are many hundreds of thousands of people out of work, so regardless of this mess in Tajikistan, let us not forget the waste of so much money this Iraq war has cost, how many thousands of lives are lost, the lack of economic opportunity for so many. I am not going to get into the hate muslims game or not. I want a better economy in the USA, like we used to have.

This is giving a slightly different take on it, note the Rav's words.

http://www.fsumonitor.com/stories/082803Tajikistan.shtml

Interesting and good points Jake. Thanks for your viewpoint. (and for not leaving me stranded!)

This is SO incredibly sad.

I think some clarity is called for.....

I want to point out that my comments, at no time, were ever directed towards any individual. I have probably re read my comments several times and it is clear I took pains to not make a personal attack. I dont stoop to that level....I have had it hurled at me enough, that I wouldnt stoop to those tactics. I also am confident enough in my beliefs that I dont use ad hominem to make my point.

Jake, very true, our leaders have let us down. Certainly there are many hypocrites and when they get a forum it just muddies the waters. I agree with you that being able to think for ourselves is critcally important. I regularly read magazines and journals that challenge my beliefs.....it is the only way to learn.

Lastly, I want to add, that when I mention liberal idealogy is dangerous....here is a prime example. Today, in the New York Times, there was an op-ed by a liberal professor who was making the argument that it would not be so bad if Iran gets the bomb. That type of thinking is very similar to pre-world war 2 thinking....The Chamberlains were saying the same thing about Nazi Germany.

Unfortunately, these days I get most of my knowledge of current events from blogging and from the Net. Many of the articles I find online I do not find in any print publication, unless written as some small afterthought...as in the Ilan Halimi case.

Media -- print, television, radio -- has become a farce over the years. Media, one of our greatest tools of communication, needs to be sharpened and used accurately and accordingly...but alas, I don't believe I will see that in my lifetime. The present-day media circus we live with can stand to use an airing out from under "the big tent."

Pearl:

Unfortunately? What are you talking about, Pearl. It's the way the world is going. I read the NY Times so I can get a good laugh in the morning. The LA Times is a rag, not even worthy of a laugh. News, they don't know the meaning of the concept. No need for The mainstrem medi when you have Seraphic Secret... and the rest of the internet.

Irina:

Beyond sad, it's an outrage. Pass the vodka.

Robert:

You are correct, except for a couple of exceptions, namely, The New York Sun, and the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, the rest just make good lining for bird cages.

Well, we DO use the L.A. times under my bird's perch. She enjoys it immensely.

This is sad and outrageous, and must be reported and retold.

Is there any current organization at work that militates for recognition of Jews in primarily Islamic countries the way SSSJ did for Soviet Jews?

There should have been. The news item is correct. It apparently was a known issue for at least 3 years.

I guess there is this thing called eminent domain.

We leave it up to the Conference of Pres. and they messed this up big time. There should have been demonstrations and protests, but we don't seem to do that too much anymore.

Lance, what is "liberal ideology"? Why not just say, I think this prof. is crazy. Should the times not have printed this article? Where do you draw the line for ideas then?

Instead of crying and drinking vodka, (which brand?), or in addition, here is something constructive you should do. I am going to contact these people.

Anyone who would like to comment on
the destruction of the only:

MIKVAH
BUTCHER
SYNAGOGUE

In Tajikistan, please send a note to:

The Embassy of Republic of Tajikistan
1005 New Hampsire Avenue, N.W.,
Washington D.C., 20037

Phone: 202-223-6090;
Fax: 202-223-6091
Email: tajikistan@verizon.net

The Embassy is open from 9.00 am to
6.00 pm, Monday-Friday.

It is important to note that the republic
of Tajikistan is trying very hard to
get business from the rest of the world.
They should be reminded that such actions
have economic as well as moral, ethical,
and human costs.

Based on where this discussion is going, I'm going to again recommend the new book "Rise of the American Democracy" by Sean Wilentz. Some of the stuff he writes about vis a vis Jefferson and partisan divides of his time sound EXACTLY like what we're going through now. I'm only on page 140 of about 800... but I find it very illuminating for today. Buy this book.

Oh, and you might want to click this link: http://www.nytimes.com/pages/politics/index.html

and check out the "Spin" joke ads that appear on the top side, and middle of the page. I'm writing these daily jokes for a movie promotion, and I think today's edition will delight all Seraphic readers.

Sorry... one more, and then I'll shut up:

The Israeli Ambassador at the U.N. began, "Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I want to relay an old Passover story to all of you...

When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt toward the Promised Land,
he had to go through the nearly endless Sinai desert... The people
became thirsty and needed water. So Moses struck the side of a mountain
with his staff and a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. The
people rejoiced and drank to their hearts' content.

Moses wished to cleanse his whole body, so he went over to the other
side of the pond, took all of his clothes off and dove into the cool
waters. Only when Moses came out of the water, he discovered that all
his clothes had been stolen ... "And", he said, " I have reasons
to believe that the Palestinians stole my clothes."

The Palestinian delegate, hearing this accusation, jumps from his seat
and screams out, "This is a travesty. It is widely known that there
were no Palestinians there at that time!!!"

"And with that in mind," said the Israeli Ambassador, "let me
now begin my speech..."

(Late to the party...)

I saw this last night - only on a blog. Ze'ev (IsraelPerspectives) questioned why Israel kept quiet about it, and had a great post.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

LANCE proposes and RANDI disposes.

Jeremiah:

Regarding an organization that militates on behalf of Jews in Muslim countries, the only one I'm aware of is the one that I linked to. You can sign up to get their e-mails and I'm sure donate to them. There might be more in Israel.

Jake:

Eight hundred pages? That's longer than "Crime and Punishment." Well, at least it's not in Russian. Okay, you talked me into it. Pass the coffee.

Ezzie:

Never too late for this party. Amazing how even the Jewish blogosphere has not jumped on this story. I'm not sure if it's hypocricy as much as simple ignorance. People just don't know. We have to tell them.

Coffee, did I hear coffee?...I'll be right over

We are more interested in going on about Cheney. (although that was great material). The fact that it is no SURPRISE that a story like this gets no coverage, is the saddest part of all.

A shul in Manhattan was almost destroyed -- by its parent Orthodox organzation. Fortunately, an angel appeared and saved the shul. But why did it even get to that?

http://www.yifashul.org/jan-feb.pdf

Bin thinking about this.

Old "Black" churches are periodically burned down in the rural South USA with little or no mention anywhere. I don't see anyone getting in a uproar over those.

Is the lack of interest or noteworthy news coverage due to?:

1. The congregations of the old wooden churches in the South were/are African American

2. The media only highlights those religious structures whose members will burn or kill others if the structure is harmed in anyway.

3. Coverage of the damage or destruction could very well spark a major riot or civil war.

See number 3 and pay attention. I have long distrusted a media which knowingly promotes images or headlines they know will incite riots for the purpose of continuing a story and generating more headlines. I believe I posted on this yesterday early in the story.

Shouldn't people pay attention not only to the news but who is broadcasting that news? Food for thought really. Why seek violence when it just isn't necessary?

Another thought, since the Israeli govt. knew about this for 3 years as did Honlein & Co., maybe they were told by bussh to leave this alone?

Or something along those lines. Maybe they didn't tink it was worth the coverage.

So it is a kind of plot?

Why was there not even one demonstration about this for the 3 years. Heck, you can always get 5000 Yeshiva kids in NY to spend the day at a demo.

I don't mean to be like Drudge or something, but there seems to be more to this than we know.