If you think it's hard to be a "pro-war" American these days, try being a pro-war Democrat/liberal! I didn't have any problem with invading Iraq and I agree we can't leave... not for a long time. But invading Iraq, and only Iraq, in 2003 was kind of like if America had only invaded Italy in 1944. Italy needed to be liberated too, and Mussolini was a dangerous ally of Hitler... but thank goodness Italy was just one part of our bigger war in Europe. Again, Iraq HAD to be neutralized, but we need to be doing so much more overseas and at home. I mean, if you think things are bad now, try another 2 years of $60-a-barrel oil. Our best advocates for meeing military threats to our nation, (Bush team), are the absolute worst guys to handle the economic feeding tube we're supplying to some of the same miscreants. And now we're a lot weaker than we should be vis a vis Iran. After 9/11 when Bush said we were going to take our enemies and all those who harbor them, I believed him 100%. I really don't think we're doing that.

It's so hard for me hold this position in America today. Liberals and Conservatives have a "support or hate Bush and the War in Iraq" line that they use as a unfair beginning or end to any conversation.

Even though I think he was a sub-par human being and basically a B-minus president at best, I take a lot of guidance these days from JFK's defense policies, and a man Robert and I both admire, Robert Kaplan, does too. JFK was an ideological liberal, but for some reason, he not only understood the importance of using/updating our military might, he was always ready to confront our enemies. Maybe it was just posturing, but today's Democrats should get out of the 24-hour news cycle and sit down and read JFK's speeches, particularly his inaugural address. Somehow, I can't see a few casualties near Checkpoint Charlie cowing JFK the way every IED blast sends Congressional Democrats scurrying. Such a waste. Democrats really squandered an opportunity in 2001 when they could have joined in President Bush's war preps and used their then-majority in the Senate to push through the economic policies that could have helped a lot too. Instead they stood by, worried about how 9/11 would hurt them in the 2002 elections... and lost big anyway.

Jake:

No matter what, the Democrats, speak and act like a pacifist party and thus cannot be trusted with national security.

I shudder to imagine a democrat confronting the jihadist pansurgency. Their line of reasoning seems to be: what have we done wrong?

This is simply dumb and suicidal.

Republicans have their share of dumb but not on that level.

If you read Kennedy's speeches today, you'd think it was a hard core Republican speaking.

That's how hard left the Dems have fallen.

Jake, always good to hear from you.

True pacificists are almost as rare as angels in the flesh. "Pacifying," or better yet "capitulationist," better describes many Dems.

Robert, you say we need to learn "patience." That's too tame. Try "steadfastness." Bush employs that from time to time in his speeches. It's Old Testament righteous and statesmanly at the same time. In Arabic, it's "sumud" - a term commonly used by Palestinians.

Jeremiah:

You are absolutely right. Thank you.

Thank you! for suggesting we learn a thing or two from that war (in addition to "war is hell").

If anyone wants to put in the effort, see also Mouloud Feraoun's Journal 1955-62. He was an ethnic Berber (i.e., a minority), a schoolteacher and novelist, who documented the war's course from an insider's but non-combatant's point of view. The money quote: "Your enemies of tomorrow will be worse than those of today." Machine-gunned by the French in the final days of the war.

A word of caution about Gillo Pontecorvo, BofA's director. He was a Communist by inclination, at minimum (in Italy, where the Communist Party is, or was, an electoral force to be reckoned with). He said as much in an interview. His follow-up film, Burn! - which dramatized a European man provoking and then crushing a Carribean peasant rebellion - was a complicated flop that in no way approached the artistic achievement of BofA. Burn! cut-and-pasted some of BofA's camera work, and the rebel leader even looked like an African double of the actor who played Ali la Pointe in BofA. The plot consisted of black rage and idealism plus white guilt and cynicism plus the "tragic mulatto". Thoroughly derivative of Jean-Paul "I-Wish-I-Were-Black" Sartre and Frantz Fanon. With Marlon Brando starring, he played himself mostly.

Jeremiah:

It is true that of the ten leaders of the Algerian uprising, eight were murdered in a paroxysm of violence after the French left.

A classic case of a violent insurgency splintering and eating its own.

And of course, Algeria has only recently emerged from a bloody 20 year civil war that left a million dead, mostly from throat-slitting.

As for the film and it's director. Yup, Gilo P was a commie, no question, but the film is unusually restrained in its celebration of revolutionary violence. The French Paras are shown as brutal and so are the Algerians. There's a powerful scene where an Algerian girl leaves a bomb in a French cafe and she looks around at all the young people who are about to be killed and yes, she looks contrite. This is what elevates the film from the usual vulgar commie propaganda. I stick by my recommendation. Just formally this film is quite amazing.

"Burn" stinks to high heaven. No reason to see it at all.

Some people only have one great work in them.

The Battle of Algiers was unforgettable. I was lucky in that my Middle East Studies professors actually insisted on us watching it. Unfortunately, I doubt most people's minds will be changed. I wish there was some way of spreading the message to the "masses", the larger constituencies who vote. But very few people are going to go and read those books. And if they do, they'll probably come away with different conclusions. Most people prefer immediate comfort and peace of mind over long-term advantages, because it's very, very difficult to think long term. It's even harder considering the amount of bad news people are bombarded with every day. And the immediacy of the news will take precidence over a history book any time.

Irina:

Sadly, you might be right, but I do my best in my little corner of the world. And you know what, the blogosphere is slowly but surely reshaping the public discourse in America. Never forget that it was the internet that brought down Dan Rather. And I believe that it was the internet that made it impossible for Harriet Meyers to proceed as Bush's unfortunate Supreme Court nominee.

My point, Irina? As Jeremaih pointed out, steadfastness.

Thanks so much for writing.

Gosh, it feels good not to be reading you know who.

Yes, the Democrats have fallen. But the Republicans are making a fatal error in refusing to cease cow-towing to their corporate masters, (masters the Dems are just as willing to please I might add), at this critical time.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
JFK 1/20/61

A better quote for today would be:

"Ask not for a capital gains tax cut and the sale of our vital economic outposts while we're trying to rid the world of barbarians with nukes and satellite TV networks."

This cow-towing to greedy interests will not hurt the GOP vis a vis the Democrats... the current crop of elected Dems has no chance... but it will hurt them with the GOP of the future.

Here's a history lesson from the War of 1812: The war started just as the Jeffersonian Democrat-Republicans had crushed the Federalists into the state the Democrats are kind of in right now, a perpetual minority in the Congress. But the newly-dominant party was not exactly egalitarian. It was pro-slavery for one thing, but a more immediate problem was it was still not for universal White manhood sufferage. But then the War of 1812 came around and the white yeomanry of the West and South did all the fighting! It was hard to keep them and their hero Andrew Jackson out of the mainstream after that.

So take a look at the guy who's fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq today. He is the future of the Republican Party. He is white and Christian like most of the party today, but he's lower middle class, wants a college education that he can't currently afford, and probably has parents who worked in now-defunct manufacturing jobs. Andrew Jackson had some pretty heavy axes to grind when he took office... and so will they. Global-economists beware.

I have little doubt that in about 20 years or less, one of our current soldiers in Iraq will be President of the United States.

Jake:

I'm not quite sure what your point is, outside of the business of America is business complaint, which just doesn't bother me. So let me just address the latter part about our soldiers. By serving in the armed forces now, many can afford a college education and boy oh boy that's the Republican I want in the White House, you bet.

Now for something really important: How about a Ten Top Reason Not to Fight in The Battle of Algiers? That could be funny!

You want humor? The following is inspired by the bomb in the milk bar scene in BofA ... and the Hamas mother recently elected to the Palestinian parliament.

Joke: There's a Palestinian woman, she's raising all of her kids to become homicide bombers. She's got 12 kids, a 13th is on the way. Her task is *not* easy. But one of her kids is nothing but a pain, won't do what he's told, goes off into his own world, gets rowdy, etc. One day the kid pushes her over the edge, the Palestinian woman, she loses all patience. So, she throws her arms into the air and in complete frustration screams at the boy:
"Oh! Ahmed! I can't *leave* you anywhere!!!"

(it's subtle)

I am amazed - and amused, at the same time – to see that there are still folks out there believing that the war in Iraq was a necessity and is part and parcel of a global fight against terrorism.

If I thought that it will be for historians of the next generations to get to that conclusion, I was gravelly mistaken.

Jeremiah:

That is subtle. Took me about five minutes. But I'm slow.

The point is that even Capitalists must be willing to take an occassional "time out" on the march of profit if they want to save it. We didn't seem to have a problem with that in WWII, and even in Vietnam. We can't have business as usual right now if we're going to beat these bad guys. I think you would agree that most of the people saying this are not really credible because they're undermining the war in Iraq, etc. That makes me sad.

I'm also not sure that the GI bill will give the current soldiers in Iraq the college education they're expecting. The cutbacks in the loan programs are mounting and somehow I don't expect the Harvards and Yales of the world to introduce a tuition break for vets. I hope I'm wrong about that, we'll see. But even if they do get it, they'll face the rude awakening after they graduate that a B.A. is not worth what they think it might be worth. I think they may. take over the Republican Party over that issue alone.

I think their first candidate will get my vote as well!

Ten Top Reasons Not to Fight in The Battle of Algiers by Jake Novak

10)Those kepi hats make you look like a sissy

9) The enemy is going to own the cafe on your street corner when you get back anyway

8) Brigette Bardot is in her prime and you're thinking about fighting in Algeria?

7) Your best idea of torture is an Ashlee Simpson CD

6) With all those bombs going off, who can make a decent souffle?

5) The "good guys" and the "bad guys" smell the same

4) The best support you'll get is Charles De Gaulle saying he really "understands you"

3) You don't mind administering electro-shock, but you left your foreign outlet adapter at home

2) Frankly, you'd like to bomb Air France too

1) Fighting Arabs interferes with favorite hobby: Anti-Semitism

This past week I was surprised to meet right here, in New York City, an American soldier who is temporarily back from fighting in Iraq. I recognized him immediately by the dog tag he was still wearing around his neck. I was saddened to see his right hand all bandaged up. I was "NOT" going to miss this opportunity to have a talk with him.

I went over to him and said “hello, I assume you are back from Iraq.” “Yes sir!!!” He announced soldier like. Luckily for me, he was of the talkative type and started telling me about his experience in Mosul Iraq, and how he got wounded form shrapnel that came his way after a roadside bomb. After expressing my sincerest sympathy I thanked him for the service he did for our country.

As we continued talking I felt comfortable to engage him into a political discussion. Based on the information being put forward on Talk Radio by various talking heads regarding the high opinion the Army has of fighting in Iraq, I was expecting a disagreeing of opinion. I was pleasantly surprised.

“Do you think we are doing the right thing being in Iraq?” I asked him.

“I struggle with that question every day.” Was his response.

“Tell me, I continued, what do your fellow comrades think? You must have talked about this with them,”

“Most of my fellow bands of brothers feel we are in the wrong place at the worst time. We should be in Afghanistan not in Iraq.” He said without hesitation,

“What is the general feeling you get from the Iraqi people?” I continued probing,

“They want the US to leave…”

The rest of the day that conversation resonated in my head. I was reminded of an interesting query I once heard; do great men make history? Or does history make great men? I found the answer to be somewhere in the middle. Great men will use the opportunities history presents them to become even greater men.

For example General Ulysses Simpson Grant (real name was Hiram Ulysses Grant) was an amazing person, but had history taken a different course and there wouldn't have been a civil war he would've stayed in Galena, Illinois at 145 Main Street being a clerk in his father’s leather store, and some other prominent president or dignitary would've appeared on the US fifty dollar bill (perhaps maybe William Jefferson Clinton).

All along the civil war, history presented General Grant with opportunities that ultimately turned him into a national hero. From his retreat at the battle in Belmont to Lee’s surrender in the McLean House, Appomattox, Virginia, along all the battles that General Grant fought and was successful, be it Fort Donelson Tennessee, or The Battle of Shiloh, Vicksburg Mississippi, The Battle of Chattanooga, The Battle of the Wilderness, the underlying reason for his successes was Grant’s ability with an iron will determination to take advantage of any opportunity given to him. However these opportunities were mostly presented in the disguise of defeat and gloom. It took a great person like Grant to recognize the positive opportunities that were lying beneath the facade of doom and gloom and make good use of it. In the end he reaped the rewards as a result.

September 11 2001 (the worst terrorist attack on US citizens) and August 29 2005 (the worst natural disaster that struck a US city ever) will always be remembered - each on its own merit - as opportunities presented by history to the presiding president of the United States to have his name remembered with reverence. Only a fool would squander opportunities like these. Unfortunately for our president, historians will look back at his tenure as a president and ask, what was he thinking??? (The sad realty is: he wasn't). His name will NOT be synonymous with the many great men that served this great country.

All of the opportunities history could muster won't turn even a single fool into greatness.

Do great men make history? Or does history make great men?

Also a Chussid:

Abu Nidal was living comfortably in Damascus along with other Palestinian terrorists for years--but I suppose you don't consider them part of a terrorist war. Saddam was paying $25,000 to the families' of homicide bombers in Israel, but I suppose that doesn't qualify as terrorism in your book either.

We are glad that we amaze and amuse you.

Robert,

Yes. And there where telethons in Saudi Arabia raising money for these vile human wretches far much more then Saddem ever gave them.

Chussid:

Have you read any article I've written where I've voiced anything but disdain and contempt for Saudi Arabia and the sincere hope that the regime--excuse me family corporation-- will be utterly crushed?

The Wahaabists are our enemies, our biggest enemies. Their time will come.

Robert,

I have to confess I didn’t follow your blog since you mentioned me year ago, I made a mistake I should’ve read your blog. I started reading last week again and enjoyed ever post, especially the last one with Lance. I hope to be a regular.

Jake:

I just don't know enough to talk about "buisness as usual." Economics is not my area. I can't even keep my check book balanced.

As for GI's going to college, will they get what they expect? Do any of us?

Your top ten are hysterical!

Bravo, Jake! Did you string those together off the cuff?

Also A Chussid (and Jake), sure I have concerns about how the Iraq front is going (Iraq being just one front in a larger war), but summarizing a conversation with one individual isn't necessarily journalism. For example, a recent Men's Journal issue ran an article about an army captain whose foot was blown off, who rehabbed with a prosthesis and redeployed for a second tour in Iraq. There are 130,000 American stories of how the Iraq front is going. Steadfastness.

Robert:

Here's a crash course in Macroeconomics in war time: Getting major U.S. coporations behind a war effort can make an anti-Nazi out of Henry Ford. That's what World War II did... thank G-d.

The top 10 was my pleasure, especially because it finally got me to learn the name "Kepi hat." I always wanted to know what those hats were officially called. A little Internet research solved that.

Jeremiah:

Good point about anecdotal "journalism." Robert Kaplan has done more research first-hand says the morale of the U.S. soldier has never been higher since the elimination of the draft... maybe ever. He's probably close to being 100% right.

Every Top 10 I do is off the cuff... probably the reason why I can't get a real comedy writing gig.

Chussid:

It's interesting, and moving talking to soldiers. If you talked to a GI who just made the Normandy landing he would have told you in no uncertain terms that he had nothing against the Germans. The real enemy was the Japanese, and after the horrible landing on the Normandy beaches, he wanted to get the hell home. Now!

Individual soldiers know nothing about grand stratgey. Sorry to sound heartless, but if we listened to our GI's Europe would never have been liberated and ever Jew in Europe would have been exterminated.

This might be a shock, but America actually has the military might to fight two wars at the same time. In fact, at this very moment, America has small forces in over 45 countries in the world. It's not an either/or situation.

If you think it is, you should become a bit more familiar with Americas order of battle. It is awesome.

We are the world's only superpower and we should act like it. Without us, the world would be left to the forces of jihad.

I have no idea what you're point is about Grant, for President Bush is not a General but a President and as far as I'm concerned just saying that he's not great does not make it so. That is not an argument, simply an ad hominem attack and I have not the time nor inclination for such ripostes. Seraphic Secret is a forum for respectful, intelligent debate. Which I sincerely hope you will take part in.

But gee, Grant was a great General, agreed, and his memoirs might be the best ever written by an ex General. Highly recommended. He also wrote them when he was dying of mouth cancer and just managed to finish the last volume before he died.

Robert Kaplan rocks. Which segues back to Irina, from earlier: you're 100% right about most people preferring "immediate comfort and peace of mind". Knowledge is a burden, but also a blessing, if we strive to use it.

Jake:

You should know that the French Foreign Legion still wears the Kepi, and those guys actually fight, so be careful with cracks about Kepis, at least in France.

I don't care how tough they are... those hats look silly.

Says Jake to his friend Robert but not to some big ugly Foreign Legionaire looking to kick some Jew butt.

Maybe it's like the Johnny Cash song "Boy named Sue". The silly hats are what makes them tough.

Lisa:

It's a thought--but I wouldn't float it by them. They are the only French fighting units who actually fight, and they get sent to every hell hole in Africa where France used to be a Colonial power. These guys are known for being absolutely brutal. Naturally, most of them are not French, but a cocktail of Western and Eastern European thugs and criminals. BTW, Jews need not apply. The Legion has traditionally been one of the most anti-Semitic fighting forces in the world--outside of the SS.

I grow tired of people claiming that we are creating more terrorists in Iraq. Are we? Are we really and how do you know? Prove it.

Here is something that we know for certain. The ideology espoused by Al Qaeda preceded our entry into Iraq. We know that they attacked the WTC twice. We have reasonable belief that they may have been involved in the Oklahoma City Bombing and we know for certain that they were involved in many many attacks prior to the second Gulf War.

We know that they are patient, determined, steadfast and resolute and that they will come at us again.

We know that at one time Saddam had WMDs but we don't know what happened to them.

We know that through luck, skill and hardwork there haven't been any more successful attacks on US soil.

I am not a big fan of Dubya's, I criticize many of his actions. But it would be hypocritical of me not to give his admin some credit for preventing terror on our shores.

There are many many questions here. I most assuredly agree that one of them is whether we have the stomach to fight or not.

Well said, Jack.

Jack:

Thanks so much, Randi will be delivering coffee and babke in the morning, my treat.

The foreign legion antisemitism comment reminded me of this:

"Francais, toi? Mais tu es juif, mon ami."
- reported by Jean Amery, (Jewish-Catholic Auschwitz survivor, relating the reaction from a Frenchman after Amery told the guy that he (Amery) was French).

The "mon ami" part really sticks in my craw - a shining example of "fraternité."

Jeremiah:

Let it never be forgotten that France was the only country in Europe that rounded up its Jewish citizens without any German soldiers taking part in the action. The gendermes were perfectly willing to do it all by themselves and were as efficient and brutal as the SS.

Even the Lithuanians and Georgians, miserable anti Semites by any standards, needed Germans to complete their round-ups.

There is a special place in hell for the French Vichy collaborators--about 60 million people.

PS I do not speak French, but managed to puzzle this one out. I have a true aversion to the language.

That sounds great. Randi, that Coffee Bean on the corner of Ventura and Louise makes a great cup of joe. ;)

He just repeats the arch conservative mantras.

1. Only we, the bush team can provide security.

Oh really, why does North Korea still have nukes?
What has been done about Iran, a much more dangerous country (more money and influence), a country that will soon have WMD, as opposed to Saddam.

2. War in Iraq.

Ill prepared to put it mildly.

3. Energy crisis, dependancy on oil, jobs.

Bush fails here too.

4. Ports. Bish fails. Only the democracts raise a stink.

I wish someone would explain to me how people can be gung ho over bushes team?

Anyone will do. If you can.

What particularly bothers me is that as a 'orthodox Jew', he is supposed to have some concern for the well being of others. I could quote verses that he says every day or on Shabbos in Shule. So there should be some thought as to the economic moves of the bush, or lack thereof.
But then, I gather that he is not of the opinion that government should give a hoot about economics particularly helping people.

Am I the only one who is tired of the political labels. . .today they don't tell us hooey but we continue to use them to identify the enemy.

When it comes to making decisions about "war". . .I like simple differences like "people who have served in combat versus those that just talk about it. Give me Murtha, McCain, Powell, Kerry. . . people who know what a fire fight feels like. . .you can have Chaney, Bush, Frist, Hastert and Clinton and the rest of the posers.

How useful are the Democrat and Republican labels? I don't find them useful but we keep throwing them around.

I have my theories, but they are far fetched. So take w/ grains of salted kashkaval.

I think the ruling classes, like those who make their fortunes in Hollywood, producing pulp, ahem, use them for their own purposes.

Jack, not the way we have been fighting, it won't work. How many years will you need to see that this method does not work?

Jack, you really think that we did not create enemies w/ our actions? Think about it, if we killed and tortured all kinds of people over there, does that not influence their friends and relatives? Not at all? After all, what type of life do they have there now, so much better than under Saddam or worse? Maybe people just want us to leave. Maybe the Abu Grabe stuff, bothered them. Yes I know that war is hell, but we are still occupiers there are we not?

"Saddam was paying $25,000 to the families' of homicide bombers in Israel, but I suppose that doesn't qualify as terrorism in your book either."

So what, did that really affect suicide bombers one way or the other? Are there now no more suicide bombers in Israel since Saddams departure?

As if what replaces Saddam cannot cut a check.

The point is that this war has been planned and thought out wrongly. We should not be supporting it.

We've created a total mess there. How can anyone still believe in the we're winning the war propaganda.

There are many many questions here. I most assuredly agree that one of them is whether we have the stomach to fight or not."

What is that supposed to mean anyway? Of course we’ve got the stomach to fight…I’m willing to send a million young kids to their deaths because I’m a macho American who doesn’t take garbage from no one. Guys like me and Jonah Goldberg are willing to fight to the bitter end of somebody elses life. Bring ‘em on!

Jake, I am interested in seeing your proofs that Saddam was cooperating w/ Al Keida. Not just that someone you know, spoke to CIA agents.

"Bush spied, terrorists died."

(had to say it)

Wow...I've been away from here all day. A little too political for me...but I heard you calling my name...coffee is brewing, babka is baking (well, not really, but I'm running to the store to buy it)

hahaha....just realized my name was hijacked a little earlier (cough, jack, cough)

Randi:

Well, it's about time. We were about to mark you absent.

Randi,

Is the babke lo carb?

Patience.....it is so critical in everthing we do.
However, so few exhibit the discipline.

We live in a time where everyone wants it now....instant answers and instant gratification.

The reaction of the critics show this lack of patience. The detractors.....from the far left(Michael Moore, Barbara Boxer)to the far right(Pat Buchanan, Joe Sobran)want instant answers and use the publics innate lack of patience to whip up fears that a VietNam like mess is about to happen.

This will be a long war.....but if we dont see it through, the consequences will be enourmous.

When I get impatient.....I think about this verse from the "Tao Te Ching" written by the great Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu.

Fill your bowl to the brim....and it will spill.
Keep sharpening your knife ...and it will blunt.
Chase after money and insecurity....and your heart will never unclench.
Care about other people's approval....and you will be their prisoner.

Do your work and step back.
The only path to serenity.

Jack, not the way we have been fighting, it won't work. How many years will you need to see that this method does not work?

Jobber,

What hasn't worked? Time to pony up to the bar and establish a few things. Much of what you post here is general. Let's get specific. What is not working? While we are at it why don't you tell me how long WWII took to fight, or WWI.

Jack, you really think that we did not create enemies w/ our actions?

Jobber, some poor people grow up to be thieves and others do not. Some people are beaten and molested as children and grow up to victimize others and yet others who suffered do not.

Some people choose to use nonviolent means to protest and others do not.

It is easy to make suggestions of what you think might happen and much harder to prove. You may be right and I may be wrong, but you have to do better to convince me.

Think about it, if we killed and tortured all kinds of people over there, does that not influence their friends and relatives?

I have a friend who was raped. I know who did it. I didn't kill him or beat him up. I let the police handle it, as did her father and other friends. I despise the man, but I chose not to act as he did.

I am sure that we have upset people. I am sure that we probably have created some enemies, but how many did we create. How many? I can't operate off of these general claims.

After all, what type of life do they have there now, so much better than under Saddam or worse?
Subjective claims are tough. I enjoy camping but know people who that this is torture. Who is right.

Jobber,

We have to rely upon facts and educated guesses. Those educated guesses cannot be based solely upon what we see through Western eyes. There are cultural differences and distinctions that impact all of this.

But just for kicks let me ask you this. Hundreds of Iraqis have been killed by the terrorist activities within Iraq.

Who do their families blame? Do they blame America or do they blame Zarqawi.

Do you know? I can speculate the same way that you have that they hate the people that are responsible for these murders and that this is going to create enemies for our enemies.

Lance:

I've been reading that book your brought me and wouldn't you know it, I just came to that spot and thought, gee perfect for this post and boom, you put it up. I'm in awe.

Jack:

Fine comments. I'm preparing a post where I point out that what's going in Iraq is classic thirld world stuff, right from Mao's little playbook. Spread terror, make sure the soft center cannot be heard, keep the liberals on the run for they fear conflict, and then swallow the prize. This strategy reached an apogee of brutality and effectiveness in Algeria with the Phillipville massacres, which I will write about -- and you will vomit. It was an early bulletin from the religion of peace, 1954. We should have been paying closer attention.

Great post Robert!

The thing about history is that it repeats itself. Why? Because history is all about "man" (as in mankind), and man does not fundementally change.

Democracies have to be a "forgiving" people or else they will not survive. I recall a very telling conversation I had in college over 20 years ago now with a group of Iranian students I was friends with (they were going to school to flee the revolution). One guy told me that, "you Americans are too forgiving". I agreed, but told him that forgiveness was an essential component to being able to live in peace with you neighbor. If you didn't have it, you would be constantly fighting with everyone around you about past transgressions. I pointed out that "you could pledge your entire life to "getting back" at someone just for "justice". I asked what kind of life was that? At some point isn't it easier to forgive, forget and go forward?"

The guy looked at me like a bunch of monkeys just flew out of my mouth.

I think sometimes that Americans are too forgiving. Most of the time when one forgives, they then forget because they do want to move on.

I am not sure that we have forgiven the terrorists of 9/11. But I do think that a good many Americans have rocketed on to the forget part of the equation.

That attitude will make the War on Terror and in Iraq more problematic to prosecute.

Ultimately, it will prove to be a very fatale error (as in open doors to future attacks).

Osama Bin Laden said much the same thing prior to 9/11 after the Mogudishu (? spelling) debacle. (The, "do you want to walk with a strong horse or weak horse" comment.) He knew that in the end, the U.S. would bug out after incurring causulties (hence the IED strategy in Iraq by the terrorists).

We are viewed as weak because of our very forgiving/forgetting nature by the people that want to kill us. (See conversation with Iranian above). That puts us in a horrible "Catch 22" or "cirle jerk" situation: get attacked, prosecute war, get tired, quit, get attacked again, prosecute war (resistance is is MORE hardened because they know we will quit), etc.

To paraphrase a movie line (I can't recall which one at the moment), this is a situation that can only end in the detonation of a really gigantic atomic bomb.

or our defeat.

P.S. about the French: as long as they are the murdering SOBs, then it is OK (to them). They are actually pretty good at it (See French Revolution). I would bet that the guys doing it, came from the French countryside and the officiers came from Paris.

Rightmom:

No arguments with anything you said. As for your conclusion about the French army. Very true,the Officer Corps were graduates of Saint Cyr, almost all Parisians upper class, and the Paras and Legionaires, er, not.

Jake, See, for example, "Why the Qaeda Threat Is Growing" by Tony Karon in Time, March 17.
Last week, CIA director George Tenet told the Senate that al-Qaeda has morphed into a loose and expanding association of regional terror cells linked less by chains of command and communication than by a common vision of jihad against the U.S. The growing embrace of the movement's goals and tactics by terror cells with no direct operational connection to bin Laden's network, said Tenet, means that "a serious threat will remain for the foreseeable future, with or without al-Qaeda in the picture."
This is what Richard Clarke said on Sixty Minutes last night:
Osama bin Laden had been saying for years, 'America wants to invade an Arab country and occupy it, an oil-rich Arab country. He had been saying this. This is part of his propaganda ... we stepped right into bin Laden's propaganda," adds Clarke. "And the result of that is that al Qaeda and organizations like it, offshoots of it, second-generation al Qaeda have been greatly strengthened."
See also "The Secret War" from the March 21 Guardian.
My daddy used to tell me that quail hunting caused an increase in quail populations, because the birds would scatter and begin new flocks. (For the record, he scattered a lot more quail than he ever brought home; every bobwhite in Missouri should thank him.) Similarly, Bush's thrashing about in the Middle East has done more to scatter al Qaeda than kill it. Now where there was an organization there are countless deadly cells, mostl working independently of each other. And as the recent tragedy in Madirid revealed, these cells are capable of carrying out deadly, coordinated attacks.

Robert,

My intent was not to be disrespectful, sorry if you took as such.

Your post reminded me of this post I wrote awhile ago. I truly feel that most great people don’t necessarily change the course of history, but merely take advantage of the opportunities history presents them. The correlation between President Bush and General Grant is as follows. While General Grant took advantage of the opportunities history presented him, President Bush – in my humble opinion – squandered such opportunities.

What more does one need when you have top level officials saying that the war in Iraq was a big mistake? The President himself said it in so many ways, that he based his decision on information he thought was correct at the time but turned out to be false.

Robert,
You mentioned that only the French rounded up their Jews without German orders:
My Grandfather A"H, chronicled the testimony of the few survivors of his town, in Jedwabne, Poland. Most of the Jews there were rounded up and burned to death, by their Polish neighbors - who stood outside the barn with their pitchforks, to kill anyone who managed to escape the fire. And that was without German orders.
(Jan Karski used much of my Grandfather's book as research for his own book, the "shocking" and well received, NEIGHBORS.)

Rightmom,
As my 8th grade math teacher, Mrs. Fiore, said to a student whom she caught passing a note in class, "We Italians may forgive, but we never forget."

Lance, of course the babka is lo-carb and fat-free...Jack...no babka for you until you blogroll me.

Randi:

It isnt the fat that is bad...its the carbs.

Yael:

You are correct, in many small towns the local police did the job all by themselves. I should have been more specific. I was speaking about the major cities where the big roundups took place and where it took huge manpower to make it happen. Here, we're talking about Paris. Just imagine, Paris and not one German soldier was needed.

Chussid:

No offense taken.

I'm not really interested in a philosophical discussion of whether some men rise to the moment or not. That's not known for many years. Let academics fry their brains with that kind of stuff. I live in the real world.

As I've said many times, WMD's are not relevant to me. My belief as an American and as a Jew is that we are involved in fighting a worldwide pansurgency. We will be fighting Muslim jihadists in many countries for many years. Iraq is just part of the opening salvo. I assume at some point we'll probably end up in Saudi Arabia. They are pure evil. Iran will have to be bombed and it looks like Israel will do that job with America backing her up, B'H.

BTW, there is strong evidence that Saddam transferred his WMD's to Syria. Remember when a dam burst in Syria and Saddam sent "humanitarian aide." Well, didn't that strike you as a bit odd? Saddam? Humanitarian aide? Huh?

Larry Elder has a fascinating interview with a Syrian General who explains that the aide was just a way of moving the WMD's to Syria.

In any case, I'm just throwing that out. As I said, I really don't care. The dictator had to go as do quite a few others.

Buckle up Chussid, recite Tehillim, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Jack...no babka for you until you blogroll me.

Randi,

My wife might not take kindly to that kind of talk, she is very possessive, but in a good way.

Jack, tell your wife I mean that in the best possible way.

I was happy to explain to her that another woman wants to blogroll me. It went over really well, kind of like when people claim that cleveland has culture.

Darn it Jack...I wanted to be the last comment.

Jobber -

You are absolutely right. We could have had Bin Laden. Unfortunately, the Clinton adminstration turned down Sudan's offer to serve him up on a platter.

Sorry Randi.