Thanks for this latest installment - I love it, keep it coming.

Rabbi Neil:

Thanks so much. I'm doing my best. The thing is, the more I write the more I realize how truly weird I was.

Yay, Robert...finally a Robert loves Karen post. A lump in your throat? Still wanna die? Sounds like the stuff long marriages are made of!
Wow, you actually switched schools though?

Randi:

The reason it took so long to write this short post is because yes, I actually switched from the prestigious Yeshiva of Flatbush "prep" high school to the scary BTA because of Karen. Well, because of me and my Karen problem.

This is sooooo hard to admit.

Oh, and let me add that BTA was great. I made wonderful friends there. Guys I'm still friends with.

Yup, nothing like scray and damaged kids for lifelong friends.

Boy, if this were a movie...

"Naturally, I'm one of the dumb kids."

Robert, I will add more punch to your statement by suggesting you drop "Naturally." Of course, I don't want you to use that word at all, and come down hard on yourself, but it is actually more effective a statement without the word. (at least in my humble editorial opinion!)

Thanks for this installment. You were deemed -- whether by others or by yourself -- "the dumb one." Do you have an idea what the smart ones in your class are doing these days? As for your "math disability"...that's why you have an accountant!

This would make a good movie. Not that I am suggesting that you do any such thing or that you might know anything about it, but...

Hi Robert. What's interesting to me is that you are able to access your feelings and adolescent voice so easily. You sound like you're back there - instead of a grown man with a married child (or is that children?).
How encouraging this would be for all the kids who feel down on themselves in school.

MH

Pearl:

You must know that I consider your editorial suggestions very seriously.

As for the smart kids: David and I reestablished our friendship years ago. He has a highly sensitive national security position where he advises POTUS on matters related to the mideast.

Mitchell is a successful podiatrist in NY and his son is one of Offspring #3's very good friends. Which is a great kick for me.

One of the premier athletes from Yeshiva of Flatbush recently started writing to me and I have learned that he was not as happy as he appeared.

Karen still remembers the humiliations of the Flatbush Alpha girls who turned up their noses and sniped behind her back, when she repeated outfits during the week.

High School was hell.

I'm with Pearl: When love makes us "dumb" it's just that other parts of our minds are being attuned. It's tough (in a Jewish setting) not to be ranked among the smartest. But those are only one set of standards. Good thing you kept writing. Go easy on yourself.

As always, your Karen series brings back memories.

Jack:

I know enough about Hollywood to know that "How I Married Karen" is "too Jewish."

Those two words are the kiss of death in Hollywood.

However, if you want to develop a movie called "How Muhammed Loves Ahmed," a sympathetic portrait of homosexual homicide bombers who worry that their bomb will contribute to global warming, well, I guarantee that you'll get a green light in a NY minute.

Top 10 Signs You Attended Yeshiva of Flatbush High School in the 1960's-1980's
by Jake Novak

10) Your parents spent slightly more on clothes than tuition

9) At some point you wondered why all your teachers who left Israel made YOU feel guilty for not living in Israel

8) Coming to school without a yarmulke then was sort of like coming to school with a gun today... a common occurance, but not officially allowed

7) Most days you reported to school before sunrise and left school after sundown

6) You've heard rumors of other Yeshivas where the kids learn Talmud for more than 45 minutes a day... but you're sure they're just rumors

5) You still can't figure out how you swam in that over-chlorinated pool and still stayed awake for another 3 hours of classes

4) Even after more than 20 years, you're afraid to let any of your old teachers hear you speak anything other than Hebrew

3) You know every Arabic curse word in the book

2) You wondered if the school was so great, how come the principal sent his son to BTA?

1) You have no trouble understanding how the Israelis win all their wars; your FEMALE Israeli grammar teacher could beat the Syrian army herself

Robert,
This is wonderful to read - you bring us back to your 14-year old world -something we can all relate to. Especially those of us who also weren't sparkling poster Yeshiva students.

Looking forward to hearing more!

all the best,

Rachel :)

Jeremiah:

It was tough being labeled dumb. I knew that I wasn't dumb, but I did not know what I was--except horribly, tortuously confused.

I was especially perplexed about my "problem" with numbers. There, I knew that I was stupid beyond words. The diagnosis of math disability was years away.

I am pretty easy on myself now, but I really hate those Yeshiva of Flatbush teachers and faculty members who made no secret of their contempt for me. I clearly remember Mr. X patiently explaining that once future employers saw my "permanent record" they would have no choice but send me off to be a garbage man.

Would love to hear your high school memories, Jeremiah. Why don't you start a high school confidential series on your blog.

movie or not, mr and mrs avrech, you are stars in a big screen show. thanks for showin us all what great acting looks like, when none of it is pretending.

I loved Josh's comment. It defines the Robert-Karen story as "Life...Unscripted."

Thank you so much for opening up to us. I was also one of those underachievers, not from a rich family (we were downright poor) and not an athlete. But I did play in the high school band, but I was always so jealous of those who could play clarinet better than me. Oh, how we thought all of that was soooo important in high school. It was only after we left that we discovered that those who were supposed to have made it ("Most likely to succeed") wound up staying in their hometown working for their father and those nobody paid attention to wound up doing great things. Like you.

"How Muhammed Loves Ahmed"

That will be the name that we use to push it through, only there will be a couple of little edits here and there.

Would love to hear your high school memories, Jeremiah. Why don't you start a high school confidential series on your blog.

Wouldn't you like to know....

btw, I got rockstar grades all through high school, was told I was smart from kindergarten on. It was college, however, that I negatively rebelled with all manner of academic work slowdowns.

I'll take the bull by the horns and give a high school memory that I recall and can smile about... (I'd switched to public high school for my 3 final years)

I was pretty quiet, especially around the popular kids, didn't want to draw attention to myself, but was also always friendly. One day, one of the not-so-nice guys was heckling a girl who was doing a class presentation. The guy yelled out, "Do you always talk with your hands?"
Meek Pearl didn't think, just spoke...and thought she was not speaking too loudly when she retorted, "Do you always speak with your mouth?"
Needless to say, I was shocked that I'd spoken my thought aloud to this guy...my thought that, when you really examined it, didn't make a heck of a lot of sense.
But it made sense that afternoon -- everyone looked at me and beamed, some clapped, and my teacher just gave me a great big grin....of approval.

Although I grew up being scared of being made fun of (because I was), and as a result feeling quite insecure in school settings, I often came "alive" in defending others. It is still my way.

Thanks for the story, Robert. I wonder...you echo my own feelings at that time in my life...could it be that everyone felt the way you did? I see my son and he appears so confident...but inside...I wonder. I would never want to relive high school.
BTW, I've missed you all...it's kidding season and we have 7 new babies and they are still being bottle fed...I'm hoping to get a shower in tomorrow!

Robert, nothing like reliving the agony and ecstasy of those years! Your post sent me into a fugue state reliving those way-too-emotional years...sometimes, I still get a lump thinking about my kids and how they react to things, but thankfully, they seem a lot better adjusted to life than I ever was.

I think that you have a lot of company in the feeling awkward department, but the story has such an incredible ending and is not the typical short-and-over 'romance' of young teen love...great stuff.

Mata Hari:

Nice to hear from you.

"...you are able to access your feelings and adolescent voice so easily."

I hate to tell you this, but it's not so easy. Writing is hard work. Especially writing this series. It forces me to dig into my guts, face what a strange and lonely kid I was.

And look, Mata, G-d was good to me. What would my life be like if Karen did not return my love?

I shudder to think.

As for writing this piece. It took hours and hours. And believe me, I'm not even all that happy with it. I read it and all I see are errors and missed opportunities.

Remember: writing is rewriting.

I'm so glad you've finally posted the next installment of the story! : )

School in general is hell, high school or not. By the way, you're not the only one who felt dumb for not being good with numbers. Why is it that people place so much importance on math of all things? I don't think most people even come near math after their core in college, if then. *Shaking head*

Anyway, you outsmarted all those mean horrible teachers in the end: good for you! : )

This is the series that drew my wife to Seraphic Secret, who ended up pulling me in as well. Thanks for another wonderful installment!

Pearl, you rock. That was a brilliant comeback!

well then let me amend it - you make it LOOK easy :)
yes - you were very blessed to have your great love returned. i love happy endings.

mata

Jake:

LOL and LOL again! Thanks so much.

Josh:

Gee willikers, Karen and I are stars, who knew?

Chaya:

I have married the only woman I have ever loved and we have had three wonderful children. I think that counts as achieving "great things." All else is merely work.

Rachel:

Much to my surprise this series has taught me that though "How I Married Karen" is firmly rooted in a specific time and place, deeply set in the Orthodox Jewish world, the feelings it evokes are painfully universal.

Lisa:

We've missed you. Good to hear from you and we hope that all is well with the business and the new kids. BTW, did you know that on Passover we sing a song about a New Kid. It's the very last song of the Passover Meal.

As for reliving high school.

Not.

Maurice:

The series seems to send most of our readers into a fugue state.

The Avrech offspring all seem, thank G-d, to have weathered high school far better than their parents. Is is because the schools are better, more sensitive. Is it because we parents are more aware? Or is is because our kids are simply well adjusted adolescents?

Whatever the answer, I am endlessly grateful.

Irina:

I realize that math is important. I just wish that for those of us who get dizzy when confronted with numbers, schools would work out something else. As for showing my teachers, well, truth is, I never even cared enough about them to go back and confront them. To me they were just nasty and narrow people. I only hope Yeshiva of Flatbush is a kinder and more progressive school now then the social and academic inferno I experienced.

The fact that boys and girls studied in the same school (same classes, too?) sounds pretty 'progressive' for an Orthodox high school. Actually, things have probably regressed with institutions trying to out-frum each other.

Ahhhhhhh Robert, thanks for a new installment of my favorite love story. The heavy stuff we've been on for the last few weeks is important but this is where we live!

Okay, you are getting to the part of the story where you answer Karen's "What took you so long?" questions.

When you put it that way, I guess I'm glad I went to all-boys MTA. It kept me out of the sight of girls during my skinny-pimply phase.

Boxer 5:

You wrote:

"This is the series that drew my wife to Seraphic Secret, who ended up pulling me in as well. Thanks for another wonderful installment!"

Sheesh, and I thought it was my trenchant military analysis, my keen examination of Clausewitz, my clever references to Glubb Pasha. Oh well, I might as well face it: Karen is much more interesting than military tactics.

All kidding aside, glad you and Mrs. Boxer are together enjoying the series.

You know if you look up "Yeshiva of Flatbush" on Wikipedia, Robert is literally at the top of the "Famous Alumni" list. Now that's cool.

Psychotoddler:

MTA, was a good call for you and your pimples, no doubt.

Going to BTA, an all male school, was a good call for me. I transferred to avoid the agony of seeing Karen every day, hence witnessing my social nothingness. But on a deeper level, I was simply unprepared for the complex dynamics of male/female interactions.

Ariel ZT'L attended Yeshiva Gedolah, an all boys yeshiva HS and then Ner Yisroel, another all male Rabbinic academy. Ariel flourished in both environments, academically and socially, and he was getting ready for his role as a Jewish husband when he was tragically snatched before his time.

Offsprings #2 & 3 have both attended YULA high school here in LA, which are for young women, and they have been very happy. The "normal" social pressures that I see in male/female high schools are blessedly absent and the girlses are better people for it.

I also strongly support children wearing school uniforms. They are a great equalizer and spare the less affluent kids the "normal" fashion humiliations that are so widespread in schools where uniforms are not required.

Oh Amen to the school uniform thing. Even as a student I favored them, not for the saved money, but for the reduced pressure and the added sleep I would have gotten if I didn't have to worry about what to wear... and I was one of the guys, remember. I can only wonder what it was like for the girls.

I did well in the co-ed environment and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have done as well in an all boys school. Flatbush not only had boys and girls in the same school, but they were in the same classes too, except for Talmud, (but my sister's class was co-ed for Talmud too, go figure).

HOWEVER, I think you just have to try to judge your kid as best you can and try to decide which environment will be best for him or her. I think we really screw our kids when we pre-decide what their lives will be like, even if it's done with the best intentions. Robert has written how Ariel made the decision to go to Yeshiva Gadola instead of YULA as was expected. And in that vein, I swear I'd send my daughter to Catholic school if we all thought that was best for her. (Kind of an extreme example, but I'm trying to make a point).

Once upon a time I worked at YULA, the boys school. It was quite an experience.

I've been here just a few times before, and everytime I wonder why I don't come more often. I just spent the past 2 nights reading through the entire story of how you married your wife - amazing, beautiful story.

I owe you a thank you: I actually started posting how I met Serach (my wife) on our engagement anniversary, and after reading a few parts of this a couple of months ago, I realized just how I should write it. So, thank you very much.

And your story is great too Ezzie...except some of us are still waiting for more...........

Regarding Chapter 35 of "High School Confidential," I attended the Yeshiva of Flatbush when you did, as you know, and wound up marrying one of those "Yeshiva Flatbush Alpha Girls who change outfits every single day of the week." In Alice's defense, however, she never "turned up her nose or sniped behind anyone's back for repeating outfits during the week" because first, her father was a poor, orthodox tailor who made his children's clothing himself and, second, I repeated outfits during the week, sometimes two days in a row, which was made possible by my swimming in the JCH of Bensonhurst's highly chlorinated pool 6:15 AM every day, then swimming in Y of F's highly chlorinated pool during lunch time every day, then swimming at the highly chlorinated pool at Brooklyn Tech every evening.
Alice still changes outfits every day and I swim every day so nothing has changed...except for children and grandchildren along the way who neither swim or change outfits very often. I'm not sure what this all means but your childhood memories are amazing and it was fun to jump in here.

Jack:

Would love to hear about your time at YULA. I also teach at YULA--but at the girl's division. For the past six years I have taught a college level Screenwriting Workshop. Let me tell you, it is an absolute joy, and the talent I've nurtured is, well, ready-for-Hollywood.

Okay, Arthur's swimming references are forcing me to share this story that may bring some perspective to the whole co-ed debate and alpha girls picture.

True story: Jake's freshman year (1984-85). I'm walking along the side of the pool as the rest of my classmates are slowly filing in to swim class. Suddenly I hear some whispering. Who is it and where is it coming from? Then I look back and notice it's a few girls from my class peaking through a partially-opened door at the other end of the pool. They are clearly "sizing up" all the boys in our swimsuits.

Man, did that incident cure me of the whole alpha girl aura thing. I didn't feel so worried about things after that!

Suz:

Ahhhhh, "How I Married Karen" is also where I live.

Michael:

Your grasp of the chronology of "How I Married Karen" os shockingly good. I may have to consult with you on the next few chapters.

Hi Robert,

I very much enjoyed it and it was for a very brief time in the mid 90s. I served in a number of roles including time as a P.E. coach.

I have many fond memories and smile at some of the excuses the boys concocted on the walk down to Roxbury Park.

I should write some of them down.

Arthur:

How wonderful to hear from you! Seraphic Secret readers should know that you and I were friends all the way back in Yeshiva Flatbush elementary school.

Your comment is especially valuable because:

You are a knight in shining armor, coming to the defense of Lady Alice, who I unfairly maligned in my post.

But you know of the Flatbush Alpha girls I speak of, and clearly Alice was and is not of this particular species of narcissistic girl obsessed with labels and equally obsessed with those who notice the labels.

INTERPOLATION:
I wear four LL Bean shirts in a standard rotation with four khaki LL Bean pants in the same rotation.

INTERPOLATION WITHIN AN INTERPOLATION:
(I have not shopped in a brick and mortar store since... um, gosh, I can't even remember. I'm totally LL Bean and Eddie Bauer and Patagonia. I even get my suits from Land's End--and let me tell you, they are perfect!)

All this is a real improvement over my Flatbush days. My current LL Bean shirts and pants are all-cotton. When I was a kid, no-iron polyester was all the rage and oh gosh, I itched and itched like a crazy man!

END INTERPOLATION:

Anyway, Arthur, now that you've jumped into the comments section, please don't stop. You were in the thick of Yeshiva Flatbush HS life.

(Shake of head, deep sigh)

Ah, the things you've seen...

I have lots of catching up to do...have been immensely busy at work and home! Just read this and I know I will be smiling all day. (But I cannot believe a teacher voiced concern that you were possibly retarded! Please tell me you are taking poetic license here!)

I love your blog and am so interested in all of what you write about...Israel, family, life experiences. But I have to say that these posts about your besheret are just sheer heaven!

Stacey:

Good to have you back. I am not taking poetic license here, I wish I was. Yeshiva Flatbush, at the time, was filled with, um, less than stellar teachers.

Actually, MTA (TMSTA at the time) was a great school and I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere else. It introduced me to Torah Umadah, which I still strongly believe in, it surrounded me with smart, talented and ambitious classmates, instilled a love of learning (both English and Hebrew), and gave me tools that I still use today when I try to plug my way through a blatt gemorah.

And yes, the lack of girls was a prime reason we were so focused on our studies. In HS, I learned to play guitar and published my own comic books.

Anyway, we had NCSY for girls.

Oh, and you got my vote on school uniforms.

Psychotoddler:

Yes, MTA had a fine reputation at the time.

Regarding uniforms: the people who vote against them are, almost always, former Yeshiva Flatbush Alpha Types, who are now overbearing parents, determined that their offspring serve as walking billboards for Prada, Armani, etc.

BTW, my wife, Mrs. Balabusta, is actually against school uniforms because...

wait for it...

They are TOO EXPENSIVE. She can get cheap, comfortable clothing for the kids at Target or K-Mart, but the special shirts/skirts that are "tznius" enough for the school have to be ordered from a place in Brooklyn that charges through the nose. And then, when the clothing arrives, it is obviously of inferior quality (they must save the good stuff for the native Brooklynites).

Psychotoddler:

The issue is: if costs and quality are not an issue, are you and your wife in favor of school uniforms?