I thought she was gonna ask you to get her a role in one of your movies.

Welcome back, Robert!

This sounds like it could be a scene in some quirky, offbeat comedy...just the type that Ron and I can agree on. Let me know when the film debuts!

Mata Hari:

Village of the Damned Girl did not want a part--she wanted to party.

How utterly fantastic! I enjoy your train of thought when questioned as to your job. And your Village of the Damned girl. How awesome. :)

great post!

Pearl:

Yup, I'm baaaack, chock full of quirky and whacky Israeli/Seraphic Secret stories.

As for the film version--red carpet invites will be reserved for you and Ron.

Chana:

Glad you enjoy my train of thought. There were actually even more movie references whizzing through my so-called mind, but most of them are simply too obscure (example: "The Pathfinder" great Finnish film) to list.

As for Village of the Damned Girl. I'm afraid I disappointed her somewhat fevered imagination.

Ari:

Thanks so much.

While my friends spend all their time in Israel touring: schlepping through dusty tunnels, schlepping up and down mountains, schlepping, schlepping from one holy grave to the next, I'm much more interested in the extraordinary ordinary tourists in Eretz Yisroel.

Hey, great stuff, Robert!

Welcome home.

Kishke:

Good to be home--sorta.

More "Israel meets Seraphic Secret" blog posts to come in the days ahead.

The reality of Eretz Israel nourishes the imagination of the Hollywood-based novelist, big time. Could it be a simcha...?

Hilarious!

Robert,
The last time I felt as creepy reading anything was reading the give-and-talk with Rachel Corrie's parent's posted at Kesher Talk. I'm impressed that both of you can keep your cool the way you do. Welcome back.

Jeremiah:

Being in Eretz Yisroel with Karen and Offspring #3 is a simcha and a mitzvah.

Oh, I believe it! (It's the temporal, artificing pursuits (blogging, writing, etc.) whose current and eventual value I fret over.)

That really DID sound just like a movie... and the twist in the end was great! : D It must have been quite an experience!

I'm not sure whether to be disturbed or amused. I'm from a quirky Christian sect myself, though I wear Dockers and my wife favors opal jewelry.

Members of my faith tend to be Judeophilic (notwithstanding claims to the contrary by snarky Jerusalem Post columnists), but they are usually better educated than the Old German Brotherhood. Nevertheless, I've witnessed the rare case where a naively Judeophilic young Mormon turned into an ignorant anti-Semite when he encountered a real live Jew, and discovered that he was a human being and not a larger-than-life hero from the Bible.

The point being that the first encounter is bound to be educational, one way or another, and tact is called for. I admire your ability to keep a straight face and be as tactful as possible in what was obviously a ticklish situation.

Heh. I assumed this was real, but it's almost too good. Is this fiction!?

That's classic.

Irina:

Not a movie, just Seraphic Secret in Israel. There's more. I had breakfast with the Brethren for two days in a row.

David:

It's funny, I really liked The Brethren. Did not find them creepy at all. They were warm and engaging and extremely polite. There is a Part Two with a Sister Jean that is really charming.

Kent:

I did not and do not consider The Brethren I met to be anti-Simetic at all. I really enjoyed my breakfasts with them. Ask Karen, after they left I complained that I was lonely, that the American Jewish tourists just sat around breakfast kvetching about the food. The Bethren never kvetched. They loved everything about Israel--except for the Arabs and the "pagan" nature of most of the tourist sites.

I learned a geat deal about their history and traditions and I taught them a lot about Judiasm.

And I really loved the bonnets. I'm trying to get Karen to wear one to shul.

It's not gonna happen. Ever.

Ezzie:

Not fiction. My Seraphic life.

Joannah:

Odd, it didn't feel funny while it was happening. It just felt, y'know, normal.

Great! Sounds like it was an unforgettable breakfast. Have a good rest of your trip! Eat some Marzipan Rugalach from Ben-Yehuda for us here in America--they're well worth the calories!

Interesting encounter yet a little freaky.
You gotta admit though that the men have it easy.
So the 'girl'was she his wife?
I bet in their society it's stillt he men who wear the pants.
"We love the Jewish people" he says, strange words from someone who tries to diminish their numbers by having them convert.

Misc Reader:

Karen and I are already back. Regrettably, we never got to the rugalach.

Jacky:

My impression is that the men are hard working and upright religious individuals. Brother Peter was in his late 40's. The girl was not his wife.
It is Christian doctrine, as I understand it, to convert, well, everyone. It does not really bother or threaten me. As for "loving the Jewish people." I understand this love not as a literal feeling but as a theological notion. Again, I have no problem with it. Any support of Israel in these dire times is greatly appreciated.

I want to emphasize that I liked and admired these people a great deal.

The people you meet in Israel are almost as fascinating as the people you meet in the blogoshpere....

This was wonderful It reminds me of a similar experience I had when Timora was in the hospital during her second relapse.

The bed next to Timora's was occupied by a mentally challenged young woman from the Toldos Avraham sect in Jerusalem. The women of this sect shave their hair off and wear black scarves that tightly cover their heads, long dresses and thick black stockings, even during the Israeli summer. The patient's family would not or could not - it wasn't clear which - stay with her at the hopital, so volunteers from the community were taking turns.

The day I have in mind, a 17-year-old young woman was staying with the patient. She was very friendly, and told me that she had recently been married. She asked me if I'd heard about Toldos Avraham, and when I said I had she then started asking me about myself, and Timora. There was a television in the room, and she kept sneaking peeks; as we spoke her eyes constantly moved back to the TV. (Perhaps I should add here for your readers who aren't in the know that in this community, as in almost all other Israeli Ultra-Orthodox communities, watching television is forbidden.)

She asked me all kinds of questions about the world outside her community. At one point she noticed the TV guide that Timora kept on her cabinet. On the cover, as usual, was a scantily-clad starlet. She asked to see it, and avidly leafed through it before reluctantly returning it.

Generally, we found in the hospital that children and young people from the Ultra-Orthodox world were very often drawn to the television screens, which was sometimes a source of conflict with their parents.

West Bank Mama:

Sorry I did not get to meet you, another fascinating person, when I was in Israel. Perhaps next time.

Sara:

I have never heard of Toldos Avraham, but now I'm really anxious to make contact.

"I'll have what she's having." :)

robert,

"I have never heard of Toldos Avraham, but now I'm really anxious to make contact."

oh i'm sure they would like to meet you too

I think "Toldos Avraham" refers to the Toldos Avraham Yitzchak chassidim, which are a branch of the Toldos Aharon chassidim, who are the guys in the gold and black caftans you see in Meah Shearim.

I suppose you have to give them points for trying.
I knew a woman who moved to Israel with her family from Seattle- they all converted (Orthodox- yep, had us all fooled) and then she became a missionary for Jews for Jesus.

I loved your comment, Robert, about trying to get Karen to wear a bonnet to shul. Sure, maybe she'll start a new fashion trend at YICC...and eventually your shul might be better known as "Bais Bonnet"!

No doubt if you look back at hear early childhood pics, you'll find a picture of her wearing one. I was born in 1961 and I've got a pic or two of me at age two or thereabouts in a bonnet.

Kishke -

You got me there. I did mean Toldos Aharon, not (as they say in the newspaper biz) as stated in my previous comment.

Avraham, Aharon, who can get all those Yid names straight?

Kishke:

Thanks so much for the clarification. Every time I'm in Meah Shearim I notice the Chasidim in the gold and black kapatas, caftans -- and wow, I'm totally knocked out and left wondering who they are.

Awesome fashion sense.

Pearl:

Here's how it went.

Robert: So, did you look at the Old German bonnets?
Karen: I saw them.
Robert: Nice, huh?

Icy silence.

Robert: I think they're a great look.

Icier silence.

Robert: Um, any chance you'd wear one to shul?
Karen: No.
Robert: I mean --

Karen drills me with the coldest, most penetrating gaze you have ever seen.

Robert: Okey-dokey.

Plus: Absolutely no pictures of Karen as a child wearing any bonnets.

Wy wife is, perhaps, the only bonnetless little girl in the 1950's. Even then she knew.

Betsy:

As I've said: I'm not threatened when sincere Christians try and spread the gospel. As long as they are polite and respectful and move on when I tell them to, well, I understand.

However: I have a BIG problem with Jews for Jesus.
1. Their theology is, to say the least, a mishmash of historical nonsense, and appeals to the ignorant and emotionally disturbed.
2. They are a sneaky and less than truthful in how they present themselves.
3. They are a cult and I personally know children who, in order to return to normal society, have had to be de-programmed by experts.

Solomon:

She was having... extreme repression over easy.

To be precise (and confuse the issue further) the black and gold is not worn exclusively by the R' Arele chassidim. It is actually the traditional dress of the "yishuv hayashan" (literally, the Old Settlement), which refers to the Ashkenazi Jews who were in Jerusalem as early as the 19th century (and maybe even before; I'm not certain about that point). Another group that wears the caftan is the Stoliner chassidim, as do many individual Yerushalmis who are unaffiliated with any group. But the largest organized group would be the R' Arele chassdim.

Kishke:

Yessss! Just what we needed, further clarification and identification of Chasideshe sub-groups of sub-groups.

BTW, any idea where I can buy (and what does it cost?) the black and gold caftan? I think it's a look that will go over big here in LA.

Probably only in Jerusalem.

(And since I feel compelled to provide a full quota of useless Yerushalmi trivia, let me inform you that a large percentage of black-and-gold wearers are not chassidim. They are Litvaks, many descended from the disciples of the Vilna Gaon who settled in Jerusalem in the 1800s.)

Kishke:

Perfect. My family, though Polish, ID themselves as Litvish Mitnagdim. In fact, my grandfather, A'S, was a student of The Brisker Rav, and of course my father was a student of The Rav. I guess that gives me the, ahem, right to be Litvak, hence to don the black and gold kapata.

(How come your entire comment is in parenthesis?)

(To underline the fact that it's boring trivia, which most would probably want to skip.)

Here's a maaseh I once heard: They asked the Brisker Rov why he did not don the black-and-gold upon arriving in Yerushalayim, since that was the "minhag hamakom" (the custom of the place), and one is obliged to follow the local custom. He replied that indeed he would have done so; however, since the chassidim who preceded him to Yerushalayim failed to follow the custom, "kvar portzu geder" (the wall had already been breached). I.e., the custom was no longer predominant; therefore, he too was not obligated to follow it.

i don't know about the striped bekeshe, but in brooklyn stores you can them in various colors and patterns (not just traditional black). my friend once had an interesting blue tish bekeshe.

They don't have these kinda of Chassidim in LA (yet) so I too was intrigued. Wikipedia gives a "good" explanation...

Kishke:

In our experience, you have never written one word of boring trivia. Hence, no need for parenthesis. In fact, Seraphic Secret is surprised that Kishke does not host his own blog. We would be regular readers.

I will pass on this story to my father. He is always eager for Soloveitchik lore. Thanks so much.

Ari:

Next time I'm in Brooklyn, I'm up for a bekeshe shopping spree. Maybe you can be my guide. My Boro Park(ese) is a bit rusty.

Misc Reader:

You write: "They don't have these kinda of Chassidim in LA (yet)."

Hey, maybe Karen and I can be the first...

Oh-oh...

Karen's giving me that icy stare.

Really pouring it on.

I take it back.

Not gonna happen.

Maybe I can just wear the black and gold bekeshe on Purim.

You want to wear some cool black and gold outfit, and you want Karen to wear a bonnet? No wonder she is giving you an icy stare.

Thanks for the compliments, Robert, and glad you liked the story. It's a good one, plus it has the added benefit of a dig at chassidim, which makes it pretty much the perfect Litvishe gadol story.