I have a friend whose marriage is the model of what I one day hope to have, should I get married. She said in any serious relationship, only three things should be capable of forcing a permanent wedge between two people: 1) Difference in religious beliefs 2) Difference in political beliefs 3) Difference in desire to have children.
Everything else she believes can be worked out, but these can be deathly if they are big enough to cause argument.
Poor guy. :( That's sad.

Relationship Rule 101 - do not tell someone you feel contempt for them. Kind of cools the ardor.

If that young man is reading this post, I would suggest that he take a step back and reconsider whether that particular relationship was a good idea in the first place. My husband and I have very different ideas about the role of religion in our lives and it is by far one of the most painful things I have ever dealt with. It brings our marriage very close to the brink sometimes.

When you're young and in love (as if I am so old...) you think that the only thing that matters is how much you care about the other person. But when you get married, you realize how important other things are that have nothing to do with love. Values (which inform political opinions) and religion are two nearly insurrmountable differences.

The young man in question should think about how those two areas affect so many decisions that a married couple must make. Things as basic as the food in your fridge, where you live, and where and when you take vacations are impacted by your values and religious observances. And that's not even mentioning the "big" things that values and religion impact, such as the type of wedding you have, religious observances that may affect the other spouse (such as taharas hamishpacha) and the upbringing of your children.

Well, let's not overlook the one thing that breaks up more relationships than anything else: Mets vs. Yankees.

Being "honest" with others is a road to ruin if you're not, first, "honest" with yourself.

Jake,

I would have said the D.H. It is a bastardization of the game.

On a more serious note, I agree with Robert. It is one thing to disagree with someone, but if you have contempt for their beliefs your relationship is probably doomed.

Especially if you have children. You have to have to similar values or the kids suffer.

Wonderful advice! Much sanity and happiness has been saved by terminating relationships. Tracy and Hepburn only worked in the movies. The young man should consider himself lucky to have asked and wise for having taken your advice.

My parents always taught me, "Words are like birds; once they're out, you can't retrieve them." Sometimes words speak louder than actions.

Sadly enough, I don't believe this young man's relationship is truly bashert...seemingly too many hurdles to overcome -- even before a potential marriage.

Robert, you've apparently set a pretty high standard for people to emulate; I can just picture a ten-year-old boy saying, "When I'm older, I wanna be just like Robert Avrech. He's the one who got the girl of his dreams."

Wafelenbak:

Thanks so much for your comment. Your friend sounds like a wise woman. The three differences you lay out are, indeed, fatal to a healthy relationship. We wish you all the best in your search for your match.

Mata Hari:

What's Rule #102?

Robert:
I am curious if the young man read your post and if he had any comments that he sent to you via private E-Mail. Not asking for details, just wondering if contact was made.

Fern:

Your comment is deeply moving and echoes all my thoughts. The illusions of romantic love, fostered by Hollywood movies, sentimental novels and poems, and supported by popular secular culture, is a poison that has infected relationships like a virus.

Romance is a dangerous illusion.

Values count. Candle-lit dinners and moon-lit walks on the beach are ultimately meaningless.

Even money problems, which can be stressful, can be overcome if two people share the same values and religious beliefs.

BTW, Karen and I don't share the same taste in art, and it matters not at all. Aesthetics are meaningless if they are not held as a value.

Karen and I wish you and your husband only happiness.

Jake:

When Offspring #2 married a year and a half ago, B'H, she basically hated baseball, or at best was indifferent. Now, under her husband's considerable influence, Offspring #2 considers the Yankees: "The spawn of the devil," and regularly says things like: "I'm worried about the Met's bench this season, it's not deep."

Jeremiah:

I'm hoping my honesty will show the Young Man how to be honest with himself.

Jack:

Well, the Young Man and his "girlfriend" thankfully do not have children.

Barzilai:

Yes, the Tracy and Hepburn films that relied on the opposites-attract plot-line are charming, but in real life such relationships are highly toxic.

Pearl:

I don't believe the relationship is bashert either. Way too many basic core differences.

Anon:

Not yet.

102? try to be kind

by the way - i just reread most of your series - going backwards (that's how it's posted on the link above). it just made me feel happy. and i liked the parts where karen explained how she felt, i.e. equally insecure and unsure of where it was going. are you thinking of turning it into a movie? i can already picture it in my head.

I have only been married two years but I learned very quickly to respect my wife's opinion even when I did not initially agree with her. We were able to communicate better because we explored the reasoning behind the opinion, this enabled us to reach a mutual understanding. I was also able to a better understand the thought process of my wife which helps daily. Of course this works both ways. The contempt he feels comes from a lack of communication. If he successfully communicated with her and still felt contempt, then he would not want to continue the relationship. The only reason he wishes to continue/pine for her is based solely on infatuation.

The contempt he feels comes from a lack of communication.

That's not necessarily indicated. He may well feel contempt for her ideas, which, no matter how well communicated, may remain contemptible (and, given that she's a lib, probably do). It's a mushy trope of modern times that "communication" is the cure to all ills. It's not.

I wish this exchange of comments would be picked up by the Shidduch columnists in the Jewish community. The advice offered invaluable wisdom that every dating person should heed when evaluating potential mates. The gold standard in marital research has actually been done by yarmulke wearing psychologist, John Gottman, who cites "mutual respect" as the most important predictor of marital success.

To kishke,
I am not advocating communication is the cure to all ills, I was refering to the "young man's" thought process that he was still in interested in her. If a person has contempt for another's ideas what then would the point of the relationship be?

If a person has contempt for another's ideas what then would the point of the relationship be?

The ideal marriage, I guess, would feature attraction on three planes; physical, emotional, and intellectual. In this case, the girl's beautiful, and let's assume she has some endearing personal qualities (or at least the guy perceives her so). All that's missing is an intellectual meeting of the minds - well, two outa three ain't bad.

Trouble is that with his nasty comments he's now destroyed the emotional attraction, so all that's left is the physical. Which is why it's not gonna work.

Robert:
Any update?