You doesn't know algerians !
First of all, jews left to france because they think themselves as french not algerians.
Myriam Ben a great algerian Poetress, from the ben moshe tribe , fight with algerian freedom fighters, and she stay in Algeria as algerian after the independence. I can talk about a lot of jews staying in Algeria. I want just to say one of biggest place in Algiers is called Maurice Audin a jew martyr for Algeria.
Algerians are against zionism and colonialism not against judaism or jews

"just a dopey screenwriter, didn't go to Harvard or Yale"...but I bet you've had some practical experience in negotiating with some pretty sharky people. I wonder how many State Department types have had real negotiating experience in situations where the outcomes are measurable and matter on a personal level.

Algerians are against zionism and colonialism not against judaism or jews

That is a convenient method of trying to cloak antisemitic behavior. But it doesn't fly.

Houari:

Thanks so much for your comment.

Jews did not "leave Algeria" They were either murdered by the FLN or forcibly expelled. I refer you to to Alistair Horne's monumental "A Savage War of Peace." the definitive volume on the Battle of Algiers. And no, Horne is not Jewish.

Here is part of my review of the book's section about the Algerian Jews:

For our final look at Alistair Horne's "Savage War of Peace," an encyclopediac study of The Battle of Algiers, we turn our gaze upon the Jews of Algeria for they were truly stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

The Jews in Algeria comprised about one fifth of the non Muslim population. Tragically, they were trapped between the European colonists and the native Muslim people.

Many Jews could trace their ancestry back to the expulsions from 16th century Spain; some even claimed to pre-date the invaders who surged out of the Arabian peninsula in the 11th Century. No matter the exact dates, the Jews of Algeria were an old and established community with deep roots and an abiding love of the land.

By the 1830's the Jews of Algeria had become an underprivileged community, fallen into poverty, and it was with the advent of the French colonists that their opportunity arose to improve their status. By the 1870's more prosperous Jews from outside Algeria began to arrive and the quality of the lives of the native Algerian Jews improved considerably.

In the Second World War, Petain's anti-Semitic regime repealed decrees of Jewish Rights, The Cremieux Decrees, and Jewish teachers and school children were expelled from all European schools in Algeria.

The whole community was threatened with mass deporation to Nazi death camps--which thank G-d, never took place.

By the 1950's the Algerian Jews were tugged in several directions. The poorest tended to identify with the Muslims rather than the French colonials, and many were members of the Communist Party. The wealthiest Jews identified strongly with the Parisian life style and scorned the local Muslims.

By 1954 a majority of the Jewish intellectuals and professionals sided with the Algerian insurgents. In August 1956 a group of Constantine Jews wrote a public letter declaring that:

"One of the most pernicious manoeuvers of colonialism in Algeria was, and remains, the division between Jews and Muslims... the Jew has been in Algeria foe over 2,000 years; they are thus an integral part of the Algerian people."

Frantz Fanon wrote: "The Jews were to provide invaluable services as the eyes and ears of the revolution, often acting as double agents against the French."

This was not enough for the FLN. By 1960, they tightened the screws on the Jewish population, demanding that the Jews en masse, declare itself publicly for the FLN.

By now, the Jews were "uncommitted." There was never such a thing as a united front among the Jews of Algeria. Besides, there had been too much indiscriminate terror, too much throat slitting, too much rape; the Jews were not fools, they knew that such revolutions eat their young.

The Jews of Algeria found themselves subjected to the cruel logic of terrorism. Typical was this letter to a Jewish shopkeeper:

"Sir, if on Wednesday you do not hand us a sum of two million francs, your daughter will be abducted and will serve as a mattress for the army of liberation... If you do not follow our instructions, your shop will be blown up and we shall have your skins, yours and your wife's."

In the spring of 1960, a terrorist grenade was tossed in the Jewish ghetto. In March the following year Jacob Chekroun, the Rabbi of Medea was murdered on the steps of his synagogue. The following month an FLN boycott was imposed on Jewish shops.

Whole families were riven by conflicting loyalties. The Levy family of Algiers is a particularly poignant and tragic tale. The father would be assasinated by the French as an FLN sympathiser while his son was murdered by the FLN on suspicion of being a French agent.

The end of the Algerian Jewish community finally came with France's withdrawal from Algeria and her independence in 1962. And as always, when the day of reckoning came, all the Jews were lumped together into the same boat--a boat that would sail away from Algeria, never to return.

Over 100,000 Algerian Jews, most of them poor, backward, and disease ridden, fled their homes, and poured into metropolitan France.

But in a sense they were more fortunate than the other loyal Muslims who fought for France and who were now abandoned to their fate to be massacred in the thousands by the vengeful FLN.

The Jews of Algeria were the historic canary in the mine. To judge the decency of any society, look at how the Jews are treated. The French treated the Jews wretchedly and so did the Muslims.

As for your claim of being against Zionism, not Judaism or Jews. Well, there is no Judaism without Zionism.

In truth, Muslim countries have always treated their Jewish minorities as dhimmis, not because of Zionism, but because of our religion.

David:

Yes, I negotiate with some pretty tough characters and if I don't stand up for myself I will be eaten alive, always by kindly Hollywood liberals.

As for your claim of being against Zionism, not Judaism or Jews. Well, there is no Judaism without Zionism.

I assume you mean Zionism as love of the land. But regarding political Zionism, I don't agree that it is integral to Judaism. There is no question that today, anti-Zionism almost always equals anti-Semitism; however, Judaism existed and thrived for thousands of years before the advent of political Zionism.

Now Robert, you seem to be a bit pessimistic about the conference. I'm surprised. as a fiction screen writer i'd have thought you would be more willing to embrace the fantasy genre.

But back to planet earth, I'm sure the Arabs will get more $ and weapons as a door prize for coming. Which reminds me, considering Olmert's contribution to the door prize, of the lyrics from a popular Israeli song:

אנחנו מניקים ומחמשים את השונאים, די!
כוונות טובות
אבל היום אני בין כוונות של תותחים

We are nursing and arming our enemies—
Enough!
These were good intentions,
But today I am the intended target of the artillery.

http://agmk.blogspot.com/2007/11/rapping-about-annapolis-peace-summit.html#links

kishke

1) Judaism existed for slightly less than two millenia without a political state. not "thousands of years"

2) Before then there was most certainly a political state. There are even biblical mitzvot involved in the establishment of political entity. The loss of Jewish autonomy is part of what we mourn on Tishah Be-Av and the other fasts, though this gets lost in the mourning for the Temple.

3) You are correct in writing in a more restricted sense that political Zionism is a modern phenomenon. But that is because political nationalism itself is a modern notion. To say that there was no political Zionism for two-thousand years ago is in a sense using the word anachronistically; for much of that same time period there was no political nationalism anywhere.

L of Z:

Judaism existed for slightly less than two millenia without a political state. not "thousands of years"

But I didn't say a state; I said political Zionism.

The loss of Jewish autonomy is part of what we mourn on Tishah Be-Av and the other fasts, though this gets lost in the mourning for the Temple.

Do you have a source for that? So far as I know, the mourning is entirely for the destruction of the Temple and for the Jewish suffering which accompanied and followed it. I've never seen any source that says we mourn for the loss of political autonomy, nor do the kinos make any mention of it.

Re. your third point: Fine. But that does not address my point, which was that Zionism is not and has never been integral to Judaism.

And to be honest, that goes for Eretz Yisrael as well. I have heard and read often that one reason God gave us the Torah outside Eretz Yisrael was to teach us that the Torah is our priority and its observance does not require our presence in the Land.

Kishke:

"But I didn't say a state; I said political Zionism."

what's the difference? obviously the modern political Zionist ideologies were novel, as they reflected general trends in europe at the same time. but this still has nothing to do with the fact that the notion of a political entity in the land of israel (you don't want to call it poltical Zionism, fine) is central to the jewish tradition (past, present and future).

"But that does not address my point, which was that Zionism is not and has never been integral to Judaism."

maybe it would help me if you could define what you mean by zionism

"And to be honest, that goes for Eretz Yisrael as well. I have heard and read often that one reason God gave us the Torah outside Eretz Yisrael was to teach us that the Torah is our priority and its observance does not require our presence in the Land."

putting the political debate aside, being honest would be to recognize that there are MANY who write about the imperative to live in the land of israel. this message is continuous through tanach, classical and medieval rabbinic literature and modern orthodox philosophy. it is also something we pray about everyday.

yes, it is a debated question whether our presence is required (i.e., a mitzvat aseh) in the land of israel. but to say "yesh al mah lismokh" in favor of the affirmative would be an gross understatement. ramban and others consider it a mitzvah aseh de'oraytah to live there and rashi (?) may have even held that mitzvot performed outside of israel "don't count." and how many (half?) of the biblical commandments can only be performed in the land of israel? the central role of the land in jewish thought has continued up to the present time in the writings of individuals like rav kook, rav soloveitchik, r. eliezer berkovits, r. aaron lichtenstein and many others; they approach it differently (some from a messianic/religious perspective and others from a communal/religious perspective, which i personally prefer), but all ascribe great signifigance to it. (also note that but there is a reason why the prayer for the state of israel refers to it as the "flowering of the redemption.")

i'm not asking you to accept all this. nor am i looking to debate the issue. likely (considering your statement about giving the torah outside of israel) it is a matter of hashkafah and neither one of us is going to convice the other. but please be aware that there are many solid classical mekorot, numerous modern rabbis and thinkers and hundreds of thousands of contempoary jews who ascribe signifigance to living in the land of israel (aside from the political issue).

regarding what we mourn on the fast days: maybe you caught me in an error. this has always been how i felt, but i will look into it to see if there are sources that state this explicitly.

kol tuv

When I speak of "political Zionism" I refer to the ideology of the late 19th- early 20th- century, upon which the State of Israel was founded.

Re. the mitzvah to live in EY, I wasn't discussing that at all. I know, there are many opinions on the question. But even if there is a mitzvas aseh to live there, it is still not essential to being a practicing, believing Jew. Kal vachomer the Zionist ideology. Which is why I took issue with Robert's statement that there is no Judaism without Zionism (though I believe what he really meant is that there is no anti-Zionism without anti-Semitism, a statement with which I agree, in almost all cases).

With respect, most of your arguments do not address my limited point.

When I speak of "political Zionism" I refer to the ideology of the late 19th- early 20th- century, upon which the State of Israel was founded.

Let me clarify a bit more: I refer to the Zionism that sees political autonomy and/or love of the land as equal to or even above Torah observance, the Zionism that would make us as all other nations, in short, the Zionism of Herzl and the founders of the State (most of whom were not Torah-observant, many of whom were actually hostile toward the Torah observant).

KISHKE:

"But even if there is a mitzvas aseh to live there, it is still not essential to being a practicing, believing Jew."

for many this is not true. for such people there is a simple hashkafic and/or halakhic imperative to live there. (e.g., i'll match your aggadah above with the talmudic dictum that living in israel is on par with observing the entire torah. and i'll raise you one: one may violate kibbud av to make aliyah.)

also (at the risk of continuing in my hypocratic mode), extenuating circumstances aside, we don't get to choose which mitzvot we fulfill and which get to violate. if it is indeed a mitzvat aseh bizman hazeh, then it is so.

"the Zionism that would make us as all other nations, in short, the Zionism of Herzl and the founders of the State (most of whom were not Torah-observant, many of whom were actually hostile toward the Torah observant)."

i think this is a misunderstanding of what the early zionists and founders wanted to achieve (maybe herzl aside). they may not have been "Torah observant," but this doesn't mean they didn't have different visions of how israel would be a jewish state.

thanks for your definition of zionism. i reread your original comment on top and now it makes sense to me.