This is the final failure of the Zionistic movement. Not only have they compromised the Jewish character of the state, they have now comprehensively failed to fulfill their core mission, their self-proclaimed raison d'etre: the protection of Jews from their persecutors.

clip down :-(

Josh:

Try again; try clicking the center arrow and then the arrow on the left side at the bottom. My tests show the clip is up and running.

Or: Try a different browser.

Kishke:

I believe that it's not Zionism that has failed but a group of corrupt appeasers in the Israeli government who have failed Zionism.

I agree that the present government are corrupt appeasers, but they are only the latest in a long chain of such, many of whom were and are regarded as pillars of the state. They include Peres and Rabin, who signed the disastrous Oslo agreement and presided over the first intifada, Barak at Camp David, and Sharon, whose monumental blunders we have discussed many times here. Olmert lacks their stature, but is definitely following the trail they blazed. What's more, the earlier appeasers were widely supported by the public, and even in the case of Olmert, I don't hear widespread demands for his ouster. What's left is Zionism in the abstract, embraced by neither government nor citizens.

Israel needs to spend more time swaying public opinion in England and europe.The govts here may be pro islamic but much of the public loathes terrorism but are just not told of the threat Israel faces.I grew up admiring all asspects of Istrael and many of my generation likewise.Today Israel is portrayed as a potential danger to us all...many here don't even know its a democracy.As thankless a task it would be...more energy has to be expended showing what Israel stands for..not showing how its present govt tries to appease murderers.

"...What's left is Zionism in the abstract, embraced by neither government nor citizens ..."

or, at any rate, certainly not by 'enough' of them

see today's and yesterday's Dry Bones :
http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/

What I don't understand is why, at the very least, the Israelis didn't come in with bulldozers and drive out the murderer's family, after they celebrated their son's accomplishments. Isn't treason a crime in Israel?

It kinda made me wonder how Americans would react if, say, the family of the Illinois U. gunman were to publicly celebrate what their son had done. Would Americans be so namby-pamby as to leave them unscathed in the name of free expression?

I agree with Thud
Israelis and their supporters need to go on the offensive in Europe. Too many have retreated into a bitter shell, this allows leftists to dominate the debate, this is partly responsible for the negative image problem. Israel has more supporters in Europe than you would think. Europe is not a lost cause. As Thud says "spend more time swaying public opinion in England and europe". You may be suprised, but even if not, its no reason to abandon the debate. But please, please, stop this nonsense about Europe becoming an Islamic state within a generation.
Ted

Thud:

I agree. We need a massive effort to educate Europeans about the reality of Israel and Judaism. But keep in mind that Israel is really lousy at PR. The Arabs are good at it because, well, they lie. All the time. The bigger the lie, the more it's believed. Very hard to fight. They learned everything they know from the Nazi propaganda machine. It worked once it can work again.

Sigh.

Exdem:

Thanks for the great link

Alter:

I'm as confused and enraged as you are. The family are not just mourning, but publicly fly the flags of a terrorist organization sworn to Israel's destruction. This alone identifies the family as traitors at worst, seditious at least, dedicated to overthrowing the State of Israel.

If Jews can be expelled from Gaza because they are Jews, then Arabs can be expelled from Israel because they are a threat to the security of the Jewish State.

Ted:

We'd be glad to believe that Europe will not sink into the swamp of Sharia within in generation, but everything we read out of Europe leads us to this conclusion. "Londonistan" by Melanie Phillips make a coherent argument, no?

Please advise as we admit that we're in Hollywood, land of illusions, and may not have a, ahem, clear view of reality.

Robert

Thanks for the olive branch. Consider the following, the national outrage in Holland after the murder of Theo Van Gogh, European solidarity with Denmark in the wake of the cartoon fiasco, the drastic increase in cooperation between the security forces across Europe following the attacks on London and Madrid which have prevented any further attacks. Europeans deteste Islamic extremism and will fight it.

Yes there are large Muslim populations particularly in Britain and France (no sympathy here, you colonise half the world and its gonna come back and bite ya). The vast majority of these populations are peaceful. However there clearly are problems in London Paris and other cities. But these are mainly immigrant issues where ghettoization has contributed to social problems.

There have been some instances where a muslim teacher (for example) wants to wear her burca in class and a local authority permits it. Sometimes cases like this get blown out of proportion in the media leading some to claim that we are appeasing islamic extremism. In the event of a mistake like this it is perfectly correct that such an issue be handled frimly but sensitively and with calm.

However do not be under any illusion, in the event that Muslims are caught in the act of inciting hatred or engaing in potential terrorist activity, European security forces are and should continue to be agressively proactive.

Regarding Israel. There clearly is a perception problem. The answer, dialogue dialogue dialogue. As I said before, go on the offensive, lets not retreat into a bitter shell where we just take swipes at each other. Us democratic nations should stick together.

Ted:

Thanks so much for your articulate and informative comment. I believe that there is a serious clash of cultures playing out in Europe right now. I do believe that good decent Europeans are against appeasement and want to hold on to western values. This includes many Muslims. OTOH, an enormous amount of Saudi money is being poured into mosques and madrasses all across Europe and America, where Salafist Islam is being taught and is spreading like wildfire.

This strain of Islam is based on the crudest Jew-hatred one could imagine, Christian hatred, a loathing for women, homosexuals, and all Western freedoms.

This has nothing to do with poverty, social conditions or public housing. It is, quite simply, an evil that must be confronted and annihilated.

It's funny, most people are not aware but the French security services are really quite good and are doing a bang-up job of keeping tabs on the Muslim extremists. They still have old hands from Algeria who know what they are doing and how to do it.

But I'm afraid MI-5 is in bad shape and needs to rebuild her domestic surveillance capabilities. The British are, er, too polite by far. You can't defeat barbarians with purely civilized means. Sorry, ruthlessness has its place.

And here in America we have a huge problem with a lack of intelligence and field agents who can speak the various important Arabic dialects: Egyptian, Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese, Saudi Arabian, Yemeni, and the all-important Pashtun. I've been told privately by a reliable source that we have exactly one agent who speaks Kurdish. This is disgraceful.

Israel. It's hard to go against the Jew-hating BBC and the equally hard-line Guardian, but gosh, Karen and I try, G-d knows we're trying.

Keep in touch, let us know what's going on in Europe. We are in this together.