Excellent Idea, The online community is clearly more tapped in to reality on this issue than mainstream media.

By the way thats David Trimble, former first minister of NORTHERN Ireland, and former terrorist.

David Trimble was never a terrorist. In fact, his life has been threatened by the IRA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Trimble

I beg to differ Robert. In the early seventies he was in the Vanguard Progressive Unionist party, a terrorist organisation. Of course his life was threatend by the IRA, both terrorist groups were at war with each other.

To refer to Trimble as a terrorist is disingenuous, at best.

It is true that the 'troubles' in Ulster cannot be measured or even understood by most outsiders. That said, Trimble was a saint in comparison to real terrorists, like Gerry Adams.

Even Ian Paisley at the height of his obsessions, was never in the same league as Adams.

If you want to look for terror in Ulster, Gerry Adams authored decades of the horrors. 'Adams set up a special unit, answerable to himself as a senior Belfast commander, to enable paramilitaries to dispose of those it did not want to admit killing.'

Recall Jean McConville, one of many who were 'disappeared' by the IRA for coming to the aid of a dying 19 year old soldier. Adams wanted to send a message- no comfort for the enemy- not even in death- and he succeeded.

Adams deliberate slaughter directed at his civilian enemies, Catholic or Protestant, real or perceived was a terror campaign.

Trimble's at time heavy handed response against Adam's secret militia and the IRA was not terror, no matter how you want to camoflauge the canvas.

I have no problem with your descrption of Gerry Adams. I think it was entirely accurate.

I oppose anybody who chooses violence to further their goals. I admire political figures that stick to their non violent principles. David Trimble is not such a person. He used violence when it worked, when it didnt, he tried politics, he was a charismatic figure who even got a noble prize for his efforts (remind you of anyone).

I am not spouting conspiracies here. This is historical fact. In the early seventies before he entered mainstream politics he was closely alligned and actively involved with the most vicious terrorist groups who committed some of the most gruesome atrocities in the North. My description of him as a former terrorist is absolutely appropriate. However I do beieve that former terrorists that turn their backs on violence can contribute positively to peace. I have no problem with him attempting to highlight the cause of the people of Sderot. I just think people should know who he is.

David Trimble resorted to violence in an appropriate manner- as a response to unwarranted terror and violence. It wasn't always pretty, but it was warranted.

There is no moral equivalence between himself and Gerry Adams.

As for the Nobel Prize, recall that award was given to Yasser Arafat, Rabin and Peres.

Notwithstanding the honors, there was and remains a big difference between Arafat and his co-winners. The same can be said for Trimble and some of his contemporaries.

SC&A
"David Trimble resorted to violence in an appropriate manner" - I find this offensive. If you knew of the atrocities the groups he was then with committed, you definitely would not say this. Im talking massacares here, no warning bombs in crowded streets, machine gunning catholic bars and shops. So if you think these tactics were "warranted" I cant really help you.

"guesome atrocities in the north?"

Ted. go back under your rock you mouthpiece of communist and antisemitic lies. If you can name one Unionist bomb attack of the magnitude of the Ennisklillen Remeembrance Sunday massacre, the Omagh bomb of August 15 (note the wonderful sense of timing: slaugher children at a parade for peace and on a Catholic holiday, what good Catholics the IRA mist be!)

I am no fan of Andrew Trimble, the Elmut Olmert of Northern Ireland. But to pretend he is a terrorist is Marxist propaganda. It is a beautiful reversal of the truth. Ted should have worked for the East German Ministry of Information, he is wasted here.

Gerry Adams was a member of the Provisional IRA, a terrorist organisation established to create a Socialist Ireland (more fools the Americans who tolerated him). Amusingly, he is descended from an officer in Oliver Cromwell's army that invaded Ireland in the 1640s.

As for Israel, the IRA has always been allied with the most violent Palestinian groups. The Unionists have always supported Israel. Every Unionist rally has Israeli flags, and not for burning either.

Look at the IRA's backers: Germany in the First World War, Hitler, Libya, the USSR, (I defer to this group as to which Palestinian factions provided armaments to the IRA), and of course the Irish American lobby.

And look at the Irish Republic. To the best of my knowledge, the only head of state to sign a book of condolences for the "sad passing away" of Adolf Hitler, was, you guessed it, the Irish prime minister, Eamon de Valera.

So try and smear Andrew Trimble, Ted. I wonder where you stand on this.

Antoine is correct, in substance and tone.

As he notes, Trimble carries his own baggage, but to declare him a terrorist' is absurd.

The IRA cannot wash their hands of their past, any more than can the PLO, Fatah or Hamas, no matter how mightily they try.

Pretending there is some kind of moral equivalence between the Unionists and the IRA is absurd, not unlike the attempt by Palestinians to morally equate themselves and the Israelis.

Redemption cannot come at the expense of another.

"If you can name one Unionist bomb attack of the magnitude of the Ennisklillen Remeembrance Sunday massacre, the Omagh bomb"
Im sorry mr clarke, all you have told me (and any other observor of the Northern Irish coflict)by asking the above question is that you know very little about the issue. There were many unionist attacks comparable to the IRA ones you mentioned. You asked me to name one, I could name dozens. You are the only person I have ever come across to deny this. Its historical fact. Nobody, not Trimble or Paisley deny this. You look rather foolish trying to do so.

Dont take my word for it. Look up the US state departments list of terrorist organisations, you will see several Ulster protestant organisations on it. Maybe the state department is engaging in the same "Marxist propaganda" as me.

Im not sure why you and SC&A keep mentioning IRA brutality as if its supposed to embarras me. I agree with both your assessments of the group. The issue is David Trimble and his links to terrorists.

"The Unionists have always supported Israel." Your ignorance is astounding, some mainstream unioists do, but the terrorist groups THAT I AM TALKING about have links with neo nazi groups and are openly anti semetic.

Interesting dig at the Irish republic. Not sure of its relevance but it is true about the book of condolences. Its a cause for national shame. I really dont understand though, Is eamon de Valera actions in 1945 supposed to invalidate my conviction that David Trimbles involvement with terrorist in the early seventies makes him a former terrorist.

As for the insults, my patience is not limitless, I suggest you stick to issues with which you are an authority on.

Ted said:
"There were many unionist attacks comparable to the IRA ones you mentioned. You asked me to name one, I could name dozens."

DOZENS?

You didn't name ONE atrocity on the scale of Enniskillen in 1987 or Omagh in 1998, because the Unionists did not perpetrate any outrages on this scale since 1968, when the Provos decided to join the international leftist revolution. The explosives for Enniskillen came from Libya, that well known friend of peace and freedom.

Ted, your lies are evident. If you wish to continue your propaganda here, I'll just keep posting more evidence of the bestial crimes you seem determined to condone. After all, I can list every muder committed by the IRA, from the deliberate exterminiation of families in the border areas to the "brave" murder of a baby in Manchester. Want to hear about the Hyde Park bomb that killed children having a picnic? Or the two Harrods bombs?

The Omagh bomb killed 8 childen and 20 adults, the victims were Protestants and Catholics alike. The Enniskillen bomb injured 13 children who were paying their respects to the people who fought against Germany in two Wars (I take Ted approves, it killed 11. The warning given by Ted's heroes at Omagh was deliberately vague in order to encourage police to evacuate people as close to the car bomb as possible, a favorite IRA trick.

Again, Ted said he could name "dozens". Try me, or shut up. That's 39 dead in the two attacks I mentioned so he'll have to find at least 24 attacks that killed 450-480 people. Otherwise, Ted, you are a big mouth with forked tongue.

There was NO Unionist retaliation for Omagh. You think one side might be REALLY sick and evil? I do. Want an end to insults? Try finding another hobby. Apologist for babykillers isn't going to impress me much. And I don't like bluster of the "I could name dozens" variety.

This doesent really dignify a response but here goes.
First. I have simply no idea how you picked up from my previous posts that I am sympathetic to IRA violence. You have referred to me as an "Apologist for baby killers" "Crimes you seem determine to condone", "Teds heroes". What planet are you living on buddy? The issue which you keep avoiding Is Trimles links to terrorists (by the way its David Trimble, you're mixing him up with Andrew Trimnle the rugby player you clown)

Again, WHY WHY WHY do you keep describing IRA atrocities. Have I argued with you once about them. I will actively argue that The IRA were murdering butchering bastards, if you take from this that I love them, well there is nothing I can do with that except laugh at you.

Unionist atrocities,
In 1974 my home town Dublin was attacked by a unionist terrorist group, a no warning bomb killed 23 civillians including several children, two foreign students and an 80 year old man who had fought for the Brittish in WW1. Over a hundred people were wounded including my grandmother. That same day nine innocent civillians were killed by the same group in a coodinated attack in the border town of Monaghan.

In 1971 loyalist terrorists killed 15 civillians including children by bombing McGurks bar in Belfast.

On Halloween night 1993 unionist/loyalist gunmen entered a catholic bar in rural co derry. These two men (Antoine Clarke's heroes) yelled "trick or treat" before machine gunning the entire pub killing eight innocents and wounding dozens.

During the troubles approx 3400 people were killed, about 1800 were killed by the IRA about 1200 by loyalist/protestants, the rest by the security forces. The atrocities i mentionaed above are the ones I remember off by heart, you can look them up the rest of the 1200 yourself. Dont forget to look up the "skankil butchers". Id say you will like those guys.
"Try me or shut up"- You are an apologist for baby killers, not me.

A little advice, i never blog about the conflict in the congo or Kenya, ya know why, I know nothing about them. Get off the blog you moron. You're making a fool of yourself.

Ted (whose views I so often disagree with) seems to be making a good argument here. I'd be interested to see how Antoine addresses his points.

Kishke

Thank you. I very much appreciate it.