"Big government: History teaches that unlimited government always yields economic ruin and personal misery"

You say that big government leads to economic ruin. But most European countries have government intervention on a much larger scale than anything Obama is suggesting and the Euro is way stronger than the dollar right now. Please expain

Ted:

The strength of the Euro as opposed to the dollar is an up and down affair, and certainly no long-term indicator of economic health.

It's important to note that when our son Ariel was going through his long battle with cancer, we spent a great deal of our lives in various hospitals. There we kept meeting Europeans, Scandinavians and Canadians who came to America for treatment because the socialized health care in their countries were simply inadequate, offering year-long lines for simple MRI's. In many cases treatment was delayed or withheld for the cases were so serious that the state bureaucrats were simply waiting for the patients to die. More efficient, you know.

Meanwhile both France and Australia have elected more Conservative market-friendly governments.

In Scandinavia, my friends report that income taxes are so high that many resort to barter to avoid the outrageous taxes.

I also have many British friends who work in Hollywood. They come here because England's film industry is moribund due to the socialized structure of the economy.

I don't know one person who's emigrated to England, France, Ireland, or Sweden for economic opportunity or medical treatment. I'm sure there are individual cases, but they are certainly the exceptions.

Let's also take into account Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, Africa, and the entire Arab world, all victims of big government.

Ted...strength of a nation's currency is not necessarily a good measure of its economic dynamism. For example, if we were still on the gold standard, the dollar would be quite strong. But (if prevailing currents of thought in economics are correct) then we would have other problems, likely including slower growth and more unemployment.

Also...the obstructionism on energy is not just about oil. Even solar and wind energy need transmission lines to get the power to market, and you can be certain that *every single mile* of these lines will be delayed by regulatory maneuvering and litigation.

Railroads are considered environmentally benign; however, Burlington Northern is facing challenges to its new intermodal transfer yard (in LA) and Canadian National is getting complaints from the neighbors about increased traffic volumes.

"Environmentally-friendly technologies" seem warmer and cuddlier until they show up in physical form.

Robert
You make some excellent points.
If I were diagnosed with a disease and given a one in ten chance of living I too would want to go to the US. I generally believe in lesser government myself but I don't fear government intervention the way many conservative Americans appear to. Simply because its so common in Europe and the European economies are consistenty stable. Democratic governments will always do what they think is best for their economies depending on the climate. That may mean swinging a bit to one side or the other. To label anyone that is in favor of intervention as a marxist in disguise is I think unfair. You must remember, many Europeans think the US is hypocrytical on this issue because when it come to certain US markets, like agriculture, America including its conservatives are aggressivly protectionist. But obviousy you're spot on about Cuba Venezuela ect...

Ted:

If you examine Barack Obama's speeches they are socialist in character. Further, one should take note of his closest associates and spiritual mentors before his Presidential candidacy took off——Jeremiah Wright, William Ayres, Bernardine Dorn, Michael Pfleger. They all profess, in one form or another, hatred of America and a Marxist brand of socialism.

In fact, if you examine the Black Liberation Theology expounded proudly in Obama's church (yes, I know, Obama resigned, 20-years too late) you will discover it is unabashedly Marxist

I don't think I'm being unfair in labeling Obama a crypto-socialist. All his economic proposals plus his rants and threats against profits for big business neatly fit a first stage Marxist penetration of a capitalist society.

Oh yes, even China, a government controlled country, is slowly edging towards a form of free markets, hence the standard of living only rises for the Chinese people as economic freedom spreads.

There are certainly unfair trade agreements that America has supported. However, that does not invalidate the entire economic system. It only proves that it's flawed and subject to pork politics.

I do not seek utopia in any ideology. Utopian ideologies always end up as massive failures, if not genocidal regimes: see the killing fields of Cambodia as Pol Pot and his human monsters created a new and improved Cambodian society.

G-d forbid you should get so sick that you'd be given a one in ten chance of survival. Karen and I have been there with our son Ariel ZT'L, and it is a horror beyond belief.

We wish you only good health and happiness.

David:

Thanks so much with weighing in with your informative and articulate points.

They only point to what a long road the industrial world has to go before we even begin to glimpse freedom from oil, foreign or otherwise.

We must build more nuclear power plants. That's obvious. But the Greenies and environmentalists also block this sane and clean energy source. Sheesh, even France is building nuclear plants like crazy for energy.

I'd like to add that this is not just an American or European dilemma, but a world-wide problem. As the price of oil rises, third world countries suffer even greater hardships.

I can't believe anybody's still talking about global warming. Is the Midwest unusual in being *two months* behind on weather?

the European economies are consistenty stable.

Ten years ago, when I was studying French, they had an unemployment rate of something like 40%. If that figure has been stable, I wouldn't consider stability such a good thing.

Robert, regarding big government, we're like the frog in boiling water. At some point in this sad & scary progression, will you consider escaping somehow, either to the mountains (so to speak) or by emigrating?

Kiwi:

The only time Seraphic Secret talks about so-called global warming is to heap abuse on the entire notion.

The global warming panic is just fashion. A few years ago Time magazine did a front page story about the globe entering a new Ice Age.

Global warming is with us so liberals have an excuse not to confront the genuine evil of radical Islam and it's existential threat to civilization. Liberals argue, naturally, that they are saving the globe.

Which makes the jihadist threat, you know, a minor issue.

No, I will not be escaping to the mountains or emigrating if Obama should be elected. An Obama presidency would be so disastrous, such a replay of the awful Carter years that Seraphic Secret would have endless material for this site.

But let's hope it doesn't come to that.

"In the meantime, we should be exploiting the oil resources that are readily available to us."

such hypocrites. they don't want us drilling here because it might ruin the environment, but it is ok to ruin the environment in mexico, the middle east, etc.? i don't see them giving up their cars.

Robert

Good debate and thank you for the kind words. I likewise wish you and your famiy every health and happiness.

Ted:

Europe's better-funded social programs exist solely because the U.S. pays their biggest overall bill: defense.

We also indirectly pay for their medical care, because the pharmaceutical and surgical device industries make just about all their profits from the U.S. market, thus allowing them to make block deals with European governments at cost or below.

The euro is strong, but the European economy is not. In fact, the demographics in Europe spell economic disaster: a negative birth rate, a hostile immigrant population that does not assimilate in any way like even our illegal immigrants eventually do, and the malaise of higher taxes.

Europe is erasing itself bit by bit.

Lion:

The Greenies don't want us to:

1. Drill for oil on-shore.

2. Drill for oil off-shore.

3. Build safe and efficient nuclear plants.

4. Mine for or use coal.

5. And even solar powered windmills are no good because they interfere with bird flight.

In short, they offer the stone-age.

Ted:

Thanks so much for kicking off the debate, and we appreciate the good wishes.

Jake:

Excellent comment, could be a stand-alone blog. Have you read Mark Steyn's America Alone.

Steyn discusses the scary demographics of Europe in detail, and comes to the same conclusion as you.

Thanks. Again, I urge everyone to see last year's "Children of Men." My friends, when a people starts to fail to procreate in healthy numbers, either by choice or not, it's all over. Having children keeps everyone in line, and it's the most optimistic thing a person can do, when you start having just one child or none, you've clearly given up. Yes, the world can be harsh, but I choose to try to make it better by bringing my kids up right rather than retreating from the arena altogether.

Robert, I knew you don't believe global warming. After the past year, I can't even believe liberals can still get away with that garbage.

I wasn't suggesting escape based on who got elected, I meant like if all guns were banned, we got an American KGB, taxes were so high there was no middle class, things like that. Not the things that are possible next year, but the things that could happen in 20.

Kiwi:

I'll take to the mountains if:

1. There's a good DVD collection

2. AC is readily available.

3. And there's a nice shul with a minyan.

:-)

Hi,

I just drove through West Texas today and only one out of ten oil wells were pumping. You can thank our Government for that as they limit the amount that may be pumped. The Railroad Commission sets monthly pumping limits. However, on the good side I saw hundreds of new wind turbines generating electricity. They are private companies paying rent for property and generating low cost electricity.

Hi,

I just drove through West Texas today and only one out of ten oil wells were pumping. You can thank our Government for that as they limit the amount that may be pumped. The Railroad Commission sets monthly pumping limits. However, on the good side I saw hundreds of new wind turbines generating electricity. They are private companies paying rent for property and generating low cost electricity.