As in: severed body parts.
We keep hearing from the chattering classes that Islamic terrorists who murder, rape, and plunder in the name of Islam, are not really Muslims. They insist that Islam is the religion of peace.
Hussein Obama has said it. So has John Kerry. The latest apologist is Muslim convert Keith Ellison, who, even by the low standards of Congressional Democrats, is particularly dimwitted.
It’s a bit like saying that the KKK are not really white supremacists. They’re a fringe group who are distorting the true message of the Democrat Party.
So, if ISIS is not Islamic, then I guess the following list of State Department designated Islamist terrorist groups are, I dunno, Mossad agents making Islam look bad.
In the world of Islam, this lunacy is normative.
Abdullah Azzam Shaheed, Brigade, Abu Nidal Organization, Abu Sayyaf, al-Aqsa Foundation, al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades, Al-Badr, al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, Al Ghurabaa, al-Haramain Foundation, Al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, al-Qaeda in Iraq, al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, Al-Shabaab, Takfir wal-Hijra, Al-Umar-Mujahideen, Ansar al-Islam, Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna, Ansar Dine, Ansaru, Armed Islamic Group of Algeria, Army of Islam, Osbat al-Ansar, Caucasus Emirate, Deendar Anjuman, Dukhtaran-e-Millat, East Turkestan Islamic Movement, East Turkestan Liberation Organization, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, El Kaide Terör Örgütü Türkiye Yapılanması, Great Eastern Islamic Raiders’ Front, Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Haqqani network, Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami, Harkat-al-Jihad al-Islami in Bangladesh, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, Harakat-Ul-Mujahideen/Alami, Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin, Hezbollah Military Wing, Hezbollah External Security Organisation, Hilafet Devleti, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Hizbul Mujahideen, Hofstad Network, Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, Indian Mujahideen, Aden-Abyan Islamic Army, Islamic Jihad – Jamaat Mujahideen, Islamic Jihad Union, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, Jabhat al-Nusra, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Jamaat Ul-Furquan Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh, Jamiat al-Islah al-Idzhtimai, Jamiat ul-Ansar, Jamiat-e Islami, Jemaah Islamiyah, Jamaah Ansharut Tauhid, Jund al-Sham, Jundallah, Kata’ib Hezbollah, Khalistan Commando Force, Khalistan Zindabad Force, Khuddam ul-Islam, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, Muslim Brotherhood, Palestine Liberation Front, Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine, People’s Congress of Ichkeria and Dagestan, Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, General Command, Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan, Society of the Revival of Islamic Heritage, Stichting Al Aqsa, Students Islamic Movement of India, Supreme Military Majlis ul-Shura of the United Mujahideen Forces of Caucasus, Taliban, Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi, Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, United Liberation Front of Assam, World Tamil Movement, World Uygur Youth Congress.
I, Sennacherib now a humble and simple Assyrian (in the old days it was different) am confused. If the Islam is the religion of peace, who were those people that spent around a thousand years conquering and converting about a third of the world to Islam by fire and sword? Were they crypto-christians unhappy with the Church’s latest Synod and determined to “do something about it” or a very obscure Jewish sect still mad about Titus’s visit to Jerusalem? Sennacherib wishes to know.
No more or less than the Christians until the Treaties of Westphalia, and even then it only applied within Europe. Christians are not inherently morally superior. While the Jews never imposed their beliefs beyond their borders, even they were commanded to expurgate all pagan worship within their homeland and to kill any pagans that resisted expulsion, as the Saudis currently do. Some people say that we never went on campaigns of forced conversion because we didn’t have the power, but I don’t believe it; it’s just not in our national character.
The bottom line is that a religion can call itself whatever it wants, but almost all of them have fine print that encourages war and killing. Muslims were just particularly good at it for a long time, and haven’t outgrown it yet. Their idea of peace is like Pax Romana; once you get past a little initial resistance, you have peace.
Pay Attention: Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindu’s, Sikhs, etc are not the problem. They are not bombing our cities, making travel not only treacherous and more difficult but more costly and threatening. Westphalia does not COUNT. Nor any treaties. This is a real problem in real time. Prior to the baloney about Islam no one, on a daily basis, in our world was being interfered with. Now, mosques are all over the place, and stupid looking imams are being interviewed on television — and I might add mostly pontificate in ways that do not promote comfort and security but ‘explain away’ the violent feelings of their constituents. If that is not clear that Muslims are the problem, and offer no solution in our interests, then you belong on a university campus crying out to embrace a culture that despises you. And I hope that this reads as intolerant as I feel about these awful people we have embraced.
Right on, brother.
Are you serious? Do you think we need to antagonize 1.6 billion people by saying that they’re all despicable savages? Besides the fact that it would self defeating and irresponsible to do so, it’s not fair either. There are plenty decent nonviolent Muslims that don’t want to impose their beliefs or their system of justice on others. Don’t we Jews have enough crazies that we’re ashamed of? Everyone realizes that IS is a legitimate version of Islam, a literal though anachronistic application of Mohammed’s instruction and behavior. I agree that it’s getting tiresome to say that it’s not Islam. It is. But there are many sincere Muslims that are honestly ashamed of them.
I don’t know if such a lengthy response is allowed but….
The actual history of Judaism; Christianity, and Islam says that there is a problem, today, in this current Era.
You are correct in that Islam does not kill people. People kill people. In today’s world these people are Islamists; or Muslim fascists; or Arab fascists; or mufsidun – which is Arabic for an evil person who makes jihad that is not allowed according to the Koran.
The religion of Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism, which was invented by ibn Wahhab and ibn Saud about 275 years ago, replaced normative Sunni
Islam around 1930. ALL of the Sunni bastard children, from the Muslim Brotherhood to Boko Haram to Hamas to the Taliban to the ISI of Pakistan to the National Islamic Front in Sudan to ISIS, etc., etc, etc, have their fanatic roots in Wahhabism.
The late Ayatollah Khomeini’s invention in Iran, Vilayat al Fiqh; Rule of the Jurist, provides a Shia heresy that has not yet been accepted by mainstream Shia Islam.
But, what these are, are all offshoots that have been created in the current Muslim Reformation.
Or, to be more precise, in today’s Great Arab/ Muslim Sectarian Civil War that began at the time of the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and the conquests of the tribe of al Saud .
The ONLY way to curb this current fratricidal war is for one of the players to gain support and arms from the non Muslim/ non Arab world to conquer the death cult factions and establish some kind of peaceful Islamic/ Arab Caliphate. (The Kurds currently seem the best candidates for that – Saladin was a Kurd.)
Without that intervention, this Muslim Reformation is going to make portions of the Earth uninhabitable and billions will die.
How so, one might ask?
Based on these historical paradigms:
The Great Jewish/ Roman Sectarian Civil War (Josephus – the Wars of the Jews) which began around 167 BCE and ended around 133 CE, obliterated the Kingdom of Israel and wiped out more than 3 million Jews or the entire population of the Kingdom of Israel.
That particular Jewish Reformation destroyed their world and left it depopulated for a very long time.
The Great Christian/ European Sectarian Civil War, commonly called the Protestant Reformation, began (either 1453 – Fall of Constantinople; 1517 – Martin Luther’s 95 Theses; or about 1530 – the English Reformation) in the 1500’s and depopulated all of Northern Europe; destroyed thousands of cities and towns; massacred tens of millions of Christian Europeans (and others) from Ireland to Moscow and from Norway to North Africa; and spread overseas to the “New Worlds.”
It exhausted itself sometime in the 1700’s as every faction was bankrupted; dead; or escaped to new lands.
These are the comparisons with today’s ongoing Muslim Reformation
There is NO comparison to the most fundamental Christians or “crazy” Jews (or Hindus or Buddhists for that matter, all of which had their own “killing fields” of mass murder and destruction) today, in 2014.
Jews and Christians have been there.
Done that.
And reformed.
Islam is in process.
And, based on the historical models of the other religions of the world, there is no way it will be stopped except through internal Reformation as I noted above.
Good luck! Life is beautiful all the time!
” Do you think we need to antagonize 1.6 billion people”
B/c if we don’t “antagonize” them, they’ll leave us alone, right?
Oh, wait. We weren’t antagonizing them, and yet they flew planes into the Twin Towers and Pentagon. Strange.
Perhaps you haven’t noticed, but WE are not the problem.
My prescription is to send all non-citizen Muslims currently in the US back to their countries of origin, and to stop letting others in until they cease to pose a danger. We should have done this immediately after 9/11. A pity we didn’t.
I wasn’t talking about the pigdogs that flew into the towers. I was saying that there are many decent Muslims.
I would love for America, and Europe, to throw out “all non-citizen Muslims.” I think it’s ironic that Europe killed all its Jews because they projected upon us the evil desire to take over the world and enslave them, and in horrified reaction to that crime, they let in millions of Muslims that really really want to do exactly that. But I wonder how long the Jews, loyal citizens or not, would last, once Pat Buchanan’s and Le Pen’s wishes were granted, and Pandora’s box was opened.
“I would love for America, and Europe, to throw out “all non-citizen Muslims.”
I’m glad we’re in agreement, but how does that square with your concern that we not antagonize “decent, nonviolent Muslims?”
In WWII, they interned all the Japanese, citizen or not. It’s really hard, probably impossible, to determine who’s good and who’s going to be a threat. Under the circumstances, I think that erring on the side of caution would justify expelling only non-citizens, while that would not justify action against naturalized Muslims.
Oh, who needs them. Stop worrying about people who will not be worrying about you. This is a practical application of ‘survival mode.”
Well, yes, but that was FDR once again trampling the Constitution, as he had already been doing for almost a decade up to that point. I’m not sure what point you are trying to make by starting from Rooseveltian racism.
Agreed. But you see how even you are prepared to accept action taken against nonviolent Muslims. Robert is just drawing that same line further down.
But all this misses the point. The question is, does the danger derive from individuals or from the ideology? Is Islam itself the problem, except that so far only some of its adherents have taken it to its logical conclusions, or is Islam not the problem at all, and all the trouble is being caused by people who are hijacking the religion? Robert is taking the former position, and backing it up with proofs. You apparently disagree, on what basis though is not clear.
Maybe you’re right. There were German and Lithuanian and Serbian saints who endangered themselves and their families to shelter Jews, but they were the rare exceptions. Nobody is going to say that the average bloody Ustasha murderer is “not really Lithuanian.”
Here is my opinion.
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/45274.html
That is what civilizational decline looks like in real time. The roots of the crisis were visible four years ago before the so-called Arab Spring beguiled the foreign policy wonks. Hundreds of thousands of displaced Syrian farmers already were living in tent camps around Syrian cities before the Syrian civil war began in April 2011. Israeli analysts knew this. In March 2011 Paul Rivlin of Tel Aviv University released a study of the collapse of Syrian agriculture, widely cited in Arab media but unmentioned in the English language press
The fault doesn’t go to Keith Ellison. It is the electorate. They voted for this individual. Goes to our nation and in broader terms, international society. Part of a ‘new religion’ all its own, pollinated by environmentalism, and fed by vegans.
No, no.
As the unfortunate resident of Mr. Ellison’s Congressional District, I pretty much blame him. He, like our own Al Franken, is a self serving demagogue who sells his corrupt views to disturbed people.
The Electorate? The Electorate is a Great Beast! (With apologies to Alexander Hamilton)
Unfortunately, the electorate that elected Mr. Ellison consists of Somali immigrants; Liberal gay folk; ordinary Middle Class black folk; and Liberal Jews.
Take away the votes of any ONE of those groups and Mr. Ellison would not be in office…
Sigh…
How likely?
I accept your knowledgeable response but do not see how diversity absolves the electorate in any way. Whether Franken and Ellison, or Schumer, Warren, Barbara Boxer, or any other leftist demagogue from whatever jurisdiction. The Voting public has spoken and they, and the rest of us, endure if not accept the consequences. Explanation merely provides a rationale for these destructive morons.
A closer analogy than the KKK would be the Communist party. Communism is an atheistic secularist religion – just talk to some of it’s true believers if you think differently. They’ll tell you that the murders of 100 million people and economic failure after economic failure over 100 years are just those people who weren’t doing it right.